How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

[xenon]

I would have thought if it is as you claim "banal truisms embellished by shit metaphor and sold as wisdom for marketing dullards." you would be the one telling me things I should have learnt from it!

You're the one saying the book is helpful, revelatory in some way.
Surely if it is so, there will be examples a plenty to demonstrate this.

 

[xenon]

Art of war is also overated. I have read that.


Really, don't fight your enemy up hill and don't leave your supply trains unprotected. Pfft.

 

[smokedout]

I've never read it; this is my main reference point

HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE by terrorvision c. 1994?

I went to school with the lead guitarist's sister and they were one of the first bands I ever saw when they were still called Spoilt Bratz and they played the Royal Standard on Manningham Lane which burned down in 1991. Not really very relevant to the thread, but true.

 

[tufty79]

Bloody hell smokedout! I had the biggest mark Yates crush I drank coke with them after their at st George's hall gig in 95? and they were bloody lovely safe men.

I was 12 when the standard burnt down, and don't remember where it was on manningham lane. I learnt to ride my bike in Lister park

I used to drink in the Manville and go to cafe Italia in the hope of bumping into shutty, Tony, Lee or mark .
I remember Tony's girlfriend worked at the picture house/theatre in little Germany and was lovely.

I hear Mr Tony Wright is currently doing Good Things

Sorry for the merail - you just triggered some really really happy memories and I grab those with both hands whenever I find them x

 

[tufty79]

With an album called regular urban survivors and a song called perseverance, they have a lot to answer for in terms of inspiration

 

[weltweit]

You're the one saying the book is helpful, revelatory in some way.
Surely if it is so, there will be examples a plenty to demonstrate this.

If you check the OP there is a Wikipedia link about the book which lists the key points, I am sure that will satisfy your query. The book itself gives examples how the key points work, this isn't on the short Wikipedia page.

 

[girasol]

Wish I could get my 21 year old son to read it, he is always getting into pointless arguments usually with his mum but also his housemates. He won't read it though, no chance.

Sounds like my 21 year old son. I think I was the same at that age

 

[souljacker]

Makes sense, soldiers deploy their forces, business people employ theirs. I think a lot of business people like to imagine they are generals going into battle, I am not sure how well the comparison works though.

Greg Ferro writes a lot of good articles about IT and computer networking but also has a lot to say about business. I particularly like this article of his:

Sales is a not a ‘Game’ or a ‘War’ — EtherealMind

etherealmind.com

 

[weltweit]

Greg Ferro writes a lot of good articles about IT and computer networking but also has a lot to say about business. I particularly like this article of his:

Sales is a not a ‘Game’ or a ‘War’ — EtherealMind

etherealmind.com

It is an interesting article but my sales experience is not the same.

I have always sold technical solution type products. The specific product has to solve a problem that our client has, if it doesn't then no sale, there is a negotiation, can we supply a suitable solution? and is the customer happy to pay a price that will give us a reasonable profit for our efforts? If both these conditions are met then we make a sale, they get a solution and both parties are winners.

That is not to say that we don't rejoice on making a significant sale, we do, sales means we can continue to employ our workforce, can continue in business, perhaps ideally that we can grow.

 

[Ted Striker]

I guess, on reflection, I'll hold my hands up and say I'm exactly the sort of wally that these books are aimed at...A lot of the thinking doesn't come naturally to me, and, yes, I think that a pithy quip will solve any strategic barrier that may be a gap in my professional armour.

Tbh I think most of the time its purpose/benefit is to focus the mind on personal development. To reduce time in drift or with less than desired purpose.

A lot of the 'advice' (that would require a change in approach or behaviour) I dismiss as either impossible at my age (smile more?!) and/or just isn't the person I am. Yeah, I wish I didn't get angry with colleagues - and I swear at my next job I, too, will be this perfectly calm Swan that rides over work shade being thrown and just focus on the resolution without sounding emotional or negative...And yet there's a point in which I'll have to accept i do have a bit of a chimp, and not beat myself up over it.

BUT I have had nuggets of advice or perspective that have been really impactful - to the point that its worth the 20 odd wasted or irrelevant chapters. (For example, when doing a presentation deck, build it out from day 1. Literally start with the Front page, and the 'Any Questions' finale, and immediately fill in what anything you know, and grow from that. It avoids dithering on the 'perfect' structure or narrative, and shows progress, and makes the roadmap to completion much more envisageable)

As it goes, I saw this the other day. Really resonated with me - I Love this shit!


Feel a bit dirty posting this here. I'm a bit christmas pissed, not sure if I'll edit this later.

Right, Next Up: Whats everyone's Linke...

 

[weltweit]

I guess, on reflection, I'll hold my hands up and say I'm exactly the sort of wally that these books are aimed at...
..

Ted, are you also tempted by Anthony Robbins? Because I am, only I don't want to walk over fire particularly

 

[Ted Striker]

Also, has anyone tried blinkist? It trims nonfiction books down to a more manageable chunks.

https://www.blinkist.com/en/nc/plans

Its not for me - I wouldn't read more than one nonfiction personal development a quarter - but an interesting concept.

(Someone else's gem of a comment that I'm nicking...) Sometimes, these books are a fairly finite set of concepts, and then 600 odd pages (or 15 damn hours on Audible...Not a chance ) justifying or explaining them.

 

[weltweit]

Ted, are you also tempted by Anthony Robbins? Because I am, only I don't want to walk over fire particularly

In fact I think years ago I might have read a Robbins book. It was probably titled "Unlimited Power .. " or something similar it didn't make as much of an impression on me as "how to win friends and .." though as I can't remember anything about it.

 

[weltweit]

Actually that isn't fair, I do recall elements of NLP from Robbins, the importance of mental vocabulary in mediating mood. I think that had value for me.

 

[weltweit]

So tufty79 what do you know about Anthony Robbins?

 

[tufty79]

Nothing apart from vague memories of hints of dodginess connected with the name, knowledge of twisted people using NLP for self serving or nefarious reasons, and a little self knowledge about how and sometimes why specific behaviours and words send me a bit loopy

"the importance of mental vocabulary in mediating mood" makes me shiver a bit.

 

[tufty79]

I also liked that you took value from something I don't particularly vwant to read, and trust you to use it for the power of good

 

[weltweit]

..
"the importance of mental vocabulary in mediating mood" makes me shiver a bit.

Oh, I rather like the idea that the words we use and think with can influence our moods.

He got us to do an exercise putting a line down a piece of paper and then writing all the negative words we could think of on one side and the positive on the other. Most people write many more negative than positive, which shows their vocabulary is more negative and this is thought to be a bad thing. These are the words that we think with!

Then he told a story about a business deal that went wrong. He and his colleagues all went through the same failure yet they all had different words to describe it, with some using very low powered words and others using words like "catastrophe" "disaster" .. he observed that those who were only "mildly miffed" could still function and continue to work towards success while those for whom the experience had been a "catastrophe" or a "disaster" were emotionally useless for longer. I probably haven't explained that very well.

 

[tufty79]

Oh you have - that makes total sense.

 

[tufty79]

And is mirrored in other stuff I can't quite bring to mind at the moment.

 

[tufty79]

Other than.... all the things I used to describe as potentially capable of breaking me are now just small fry, save a couple of Enemy Issues I need to pick through like the dwp. That's been a really useful take - if I've managed to get through everything I have so far, what the fuck is the worst that can happen? The only person capable of seriously damaging me is me, by my reaction to other people and then rage/anger at myself for getting angry. If I can sort that out I'm golden.

Is that an ok war strategy, JimW ?