How do Icons die? how do stars fade and cease to be?

[Idris2002]

That's the Kinks, here to tell us that Celluloid Heroes never really die.

Except that they do, of course, and not just literally.

As 8den said in the Preacher thread, John Wayne may have been an icon when the original (and awful) comics came out, but where is he today?

Now the particular case of Wayne and his fading stardom may be related to the changing face of American power since the Iraq war (but I remember my Da trying to ring the Late Late Show when Maureen O'Hara was whitewashing JW for Gaybo's benefit, on the grounds that W was a Vietnam apologist).

So that's the threads question - why and how do some iconic face rise and fall, while other keep on going. Marilyn's still going strong for example, and James Dean too (isn't he?).

 

[krtek a houby]

James Dean doesn't seem to get mentioned much these days, or Brando. But maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

 

[marty21]

There was a resurgence of interest in John Wayne a few years ago when they remade True Grit. His films are still regularly shown albeit mainly on marginal channels , more channels mean more stuff is needed to fill the schedule. And you still see Wayne in memes.

 

[Reno]

So far there still are enough people around who enjoy classic films but that will dwindle to an even smaller niche group over the next couple of generations and eventually they will all be mostly forgotten unless film nostalgia becomes fashionable. Monroe and Dean were the biggest icons of classic Hollywood period. Both represented a new femininity/masculinity which was sexy and yet vulnerable in a way that it struck a chord and they still are like a short hand for who is considered iconic. I think John Wayne still is an icon among people who appreciate classic cinema, but more for the John Ford films he appeared in than for the type of masculinity he represented or for his conservatism.

 

[Sea Star]

How many icons have survived more than a couple of generations after their death though? Can't be many.

 

[DotCommunist]

How many icons have survived more than a couple of generations after their death though? Can't be many.

chaplin

 

[krtek a houby]

How many icons have survived more than a couple of generations after their death though? Can't be many.

chaplin

Rudolf Valentino

 

[Reno]

Rudolf Valentino

Does anybody actually still watch his films ? There are silent films which have aged well, but not his. The name may still be known to some for having been the first male movie heartthrob, but otherwise his work is largely forgotten.

 

[weltweit]

I think it is a little like music, some lasts quite a long time after it was first released while others drops like a stone. Who is to know the reason why.

Sometimes I think it is because each new generation wants something to call their own, so while Screamo might seem new to the new generation, the fact that I feel it could have stayed under the banner of heavy metal / rock will not assuage newbies because for them, this is their thing.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bogart endures, I would think, more so than people who were as big or bigger at his time like Spencer Tracy.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Jimmy Stewart too. Clever enough to star in some of Hitchcock's best work.

Ditto Cary Grant.

 

[krtek a houby]

Elvis

 

[Sea Star]

Elvis

Too young to tell. First generation fans are still in their 40s

 

[littlebabyjesus]

With musicians, there is perhaps a stronger case for endurance for the few than film actors. Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Marvin Gaye - they're not going to fade. My guess is that Bowie won't fade, but it's too early to say.

 

[Sea Star]

Rudolf Valentino

I thought of him. But how widespread it's that? I'm only aware of him really because of Bowies admiration for him.

 

[Pickman's model]

The marx brothers endure

 

[DaveCinzano]

And you still see Wayne in memes.

The hell I do

 

[Reno]

Elvis

The rules for music stars are different and that's what Elvis primarily was. It only takes three minutes to listen to a pop song, a film takes more of a commitment.

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought of him. But how widespread it's that? I'm only aware of him really because of Bowies admiration for him.

Not to mention the bangles mentioning him in their song manic monday

 

[krtek a houby]

Too young to tell. First generation fans are still in their 40s

The light of Elvis shall never diminish.

I thought of him. But how widespread it's that? I'm only aware of him really because of Bowies admiration for him.

I remember him from my childhood but I'm not sure why. Probably not so widespread, I guess.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The rules for music stars are different and that's what Elvis primarily was. It only takes three minutes to listen to a pop song, a film takes more of a commitment.

Mind you, isn't the test that you know who they are and a bit of what they were about even if you haven't seen any of their films? Bet there are millions of people who know who James Dean was and have never seen any of his films.

Marylin Monroe's perhaps the obvious one who really endures.

 

[krtek a houby]

Garbo, Dietrich

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Garbo

Another whose films many (most) won't have seen.

 

[Sea Star]

I still see people regularly referring to Brando as he was in Godfather and apocalypse now. So I think he's still hanging on.

 

[Sirena]

Not to mention the bangles mentioning him in their song manic monday

...and John Wayne is Big Leggy, isn't he?

 

[krtek a houby]

I still see people regularly referring to Brando as he was in Godfather and apocalypse now. So I think he's still hanging on.

On the Waterfront or Last Tango in Paris or A Streetcar Named Desire, surely?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I still see people regularly referring to Brando as he was in Godfather and apocalypse now. So I think he's still hanging on.

He's also very recent really.

Orson Welles. Recentish too, but the work he's remembered for isn't. I reckon Richard Burton will endure cos of his voice.

 

[Reno]

Jimmy Stewart too. Clever enough to star in some of Hitchcock's best work.

Ditto Cary Grant.

I'm not sure how perceptive Stuart was about how Hitchcock subverted his image as the all American boy and turned him into a bit of a perv in Rear Window and Vertigo. It was more Hitchcock who was clever there.

 

[Sea Star]

On the Waterfront or Last Tango in Paris or A Streetcar Named Desire, surely?

I hardly ever see them mentioned tbh - maybe I move in the wrong circles

I mean in the 80s waterfront Brando was a really strong icon like Dean but I don't see it now.

 

[krtek a houby]

Bette Davis