Hold your nose and vote Labour?

[mojo pixy]

Bombproof = "It's basically a tory manifesto, thereby we hope to deflect any tory criticism", aka electable.

 

[Orang Utan]

A new kettle for number 10

 

[SpookyFrank]

HS2 to be renamed the Boris Johnson Line.

 

[Rimbaud]

Pretty much ALL the racism within the Labour Party that I have directly encountered so far this century is Progress/Labour First/Labour To Win activists using anti-black racist and Islamophobic tropes and ideas to attack non white left wingers, and yes that did increase with Corbyn as leader, and it shows quite clearly that a LOT of the prime movers behind Starmer are at the very least completely unconcerned by bigotry or prejudice if they think they can use it for factional ends. That doesn't mean the left is perfect either. There's still a large component of white middle aged middle class people on the left who only want to talk amongst themselves, but the overt stuff has almost inevitably been from the right of the Party.

A big difference between the left of the Party and the right is that the left will say things like "we aren't perfect either and have our issues to address." But the Labour right never engage in self-reflection or self-criticism and rarely if ever address their critics in good faith.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Bombproof = "It's basically a tory manifesto, thereby we hope to deflect any tory criticism", aka electable.

Electable (adj): Approved by Murdoch and Rothermere.

Basically the Labour right position is that two old stinking rich fascists should decide everything that is allowed to happen in the UK. Prove me wrong.

 

[mojo pixy]

Basically the Labour right position is that two old stinking rich fascists should decide everything that is allowed to happen in the UK. Prove me wrong.

Yes I'd love to but you're basically right. I've posted elsewhere about how utterly hopeless everything feels to me just now, I'm not in a position to prove anyone wrong about anything tbh. Not that you were specifically asking me, it's just your turn of phrase seemed to beg a response.

 

[The39thStep]

Electable (adj): Approved by Murdoch and Rothermere.

Basically the Labour right position is that two old stinking rich fascists should decide everything that is allowed to happen in the UK. Prove me wrong.

That is the position of the Labour Paty per se

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Yes I'd love to but you're basically right. I've posted elsewhere about how utterly hopeless everything feels to me just now, I'm not in a position to prove anyone wrong about anything tbh. Not that you were specifically asking me, it's just your turn of phrase seemed to beg a response.

We don't need a national political party to get MPs elected. In 1906, when the Labour Party was founded, its first batch of MPs were already in Parliament, elected as independent socialists, TU backed Liberals, and with a plethora of small local parties. That can be done again. Even if there won't be one in your constituency there will be one within easy travelling distance. So far the only definites are Emma Dent Coad in Kensington, Rosie Mitchell in Frome, and OCISA in Holborn St Pancras, but the Liverpool Community Independents will near enough certainly be standing at least one candidate, as will Aspire in Tower Hamlets, Mehmoud Mirza's group in Newham, and Transform/Breakthrough around the country. With pretty much all the established parties trying solely to work through the same gutter media and chasing the same wealthy donors the only chance is to work locally outside of the corrupted system. It's not hopeless, but it is going to take a lot of hard graft and out of the box thinking.

 

[Sue]

as will Aspire in Tower Hamlets,

That's Lutfur Rahman's lot, right?

 

[Eric Jarvis]

That's Lutfur Rahman's lot, right?

Yep. Further nose holding?

 

[Sue]

Yep. Further nose holding?

I wouldn't vote Labour and I wouldn't vote Aspire either.

 

[PTK]

Come the next General Election, I will vote for my local Labour candidate, Walt Zanall.
Good ol' Walt!

 

[GarveyLives]

Is it not confusing for the electorate when the Labour Party's Shadow Paymaster General appears to welcome someone who has been pleading to be a Conservative Party election candidate into the Labour Party?:

​

... meanwhile, an "Election boost for Labour":

Tory big beast Ken Clarke praises Rachel Reeves’s ‘responsible’ economics in coup for Labour

 

[GarveyLives]

And now ...

"Sir Keir Starmer would be welcomed into the Conservative Party with “open arms”, Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg has said.

The top Tory and arch-Brexiteer said the Labour leader’s recent article in the Telegraph, in which Sir Keir praised Margaret Thatcher, sounded like a Conservative minister launching a leadership bid ..."

Jacob Rees-Mogg: Keir Starmer would be welcomed by the Tories with open arms

 

[Smangus]

Can't vote for them with the Gaza cowardice they have displayed, apart from a few exceptions.

 

[Throbbing Angel]

SO what do we all do? Green? Libs?

SNP not an option here.

 

[Pickman's model]

Come the next General Election, I will vote for my local Labour candidate, Walt Zanall.
Good ol' Walt!

Vote walt get russ

 

[PTK]

SO what do we all do? Green? Libs?

SNP not an option here.

I will spoil my ballot paper and write on it that both the sitting Conservative MP and his Labour opponent have supported mass murder in the Gaza Strip.

 

[Throbbing Angel]

I will spoil my ballot paper and write on it that both the sitting Conservative MP and his Labour opponent have supported mass murder in the Gaza Strip.

How will this effect a transition from Tory to Other, though?

 

[PTK]

Can't vote for them with the Gaza cowardice they have displayed, apart from a few exceptions.

A lot of people feel like that.

How can we vote for Labour candidates who don't speak out against the violation of international humanitarian law? You would think that upholding the Geneva Conventions was common ground across the political spectrum.

 

[PTK]

How will this effect a transition from Tory to Other, though?

Will Other reverse the cuts in public services?
Will Other reverse the cuts in social security benefits?
Will Other put pressure on the State of Israel to uphold the Geneva Conventions?

 

[Dystopiary]

And now ...

[snip]

Jacob Rees-Mogg: Keir Starmer would be welcomed by the Tories with open arms

"I stand ready to deliver"

He's no highwayman but he'd rob us all.

 

[Throbbing Angel]

Will Other reverse the cuts in public services?
Will Other reverse the cuts in social security benefits?
Will Other put pressure on the State of Israel to uphold the Geneva Conventions?

If you don't vote them in, how will we ever know?

I've worked on elections; counted the spoiled; the protests; such a waste of effort.
Vote and then send the ones you don't like a turd by snail mail. Or something.

The people counting don't care about your spoiled paper, unless it's really, extraordinarily funny or original (99.99% aren't, trust me).
The people you didn't vote for don't care either unless they lost, in which case they view spoiled papers as a waste and create extra work for elections staff whilst they argue the toss about whether it should be counted or not.

And a word on this. If you draw a knob in one box, the box where your X is supposed to go, it can, has been in the past, and will be again, construed as a vote for that candidate (in some cases) because it shows intent (apparently).

Please, draw knobs in all the boxes or draw one, huge, ballot paper spanning phallus across the whole sheet. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

And a word on this. If you draw a knob in one box, the box where your X is supposed to go, it can, has been in the past, and will be again, construed as a vote for that candidate (in some cases) because it shows intent (apparently).

since i moved here, i've been reluctant to draw a knob, in case it's taken as a vote for the tory twunt of a local MP...

 

[PTK]

If you don't vote them in, how will we ever know?

I've worked on elections; counted the spoiled; the protests; such a waste of effort.
Vote and then send the ones you don't like a turd by snail mail. Or something.

The people counting don't care about your spoiled paper, unless it's really, extraordinarily funny or original (99.99% aren't, trust me).
The people you didn't vote for don't care either unless they lost, in which case they view spoiled papers as a waste and create extra work for elections staff whilst they argue the toss about whether it should be counted or not.

And a word on this. If you draw a knob in one box, the box where your X is supposed to go, it can, has been in the past, and will be again, construed as a vote for that candidate (in some cases) because it shows intent (apparently).

Please, draw knobs in all the boxes or draw one, huge, ballot paper spanning phallus across the whole sheet. It's the only way to be sure.

Well, we do know that the Labour Party will just continue the policies of the present government in most thing, because it has said so.

If you are going to draw a knob, then stay at home, as you are not a serious person.

 

[danny la rouge]

Well, we do know that the Labour Party will just continue the policies of the present government in most thing, because it has said so.

Indeed. And they’ve specified a target for net immigration of 200,000 “in a normal year”. (While also saying they won’t set targets).

And since the vast majority of the current migration figures are legal immigrants (and nothing to do with successful asylum claims), then they’re going to have to be intervening in a lot more ways than just restricting having a foreign partner to wealthy people.

 

[redsquirrel]

If you don't vote them in, how will we ever know?

So the Labour Party leadership is lying when it spells out its policies?

And we can look at the current and past behaviour of the party - at the local and national level - and use that to provide a good indication of how the LP is likely to behave in office. We can look at LP councils attacking workers right here and now, we can look at the LPs total lack of support of unions and workers taking strike action, we can look at the LPs support for the killing in Gaza.

Your comment seems to be a replay of the idea from 1997 (and further past) that once a Labour government is elected it will suddenly throw back the cloak and start acting as a social democratic party. Ignoring the fact that this has never happened and that the LP is being quite clear about its politics.

 

[Throbbing Angel]

So the Labour Party leadership is lying when it spells out its policies?

And we can look at the current and past behaviour of the party - at the local and national level - and use that to provide a good indication of how the LP is likely to behave in office. We can look at LP councils attacking workers right here and now, we can look at the LPs total lack of support of unions and workers taking strike action, we can look at the LPs support for the killing in Gaza.

Your comment seems to be a replay of the idea from 1997 (and further past) that once a Labour government is elected it will suddenly throw back the cloak and start acting as a social democratic party. Ignoring the fact that this has never happened and that the LP is being quite clear about its politics.

My comment is nothing of the sort.
I'm responding to wasting votes being a way of maintaining the existing government and there being no meaningful alternative.

You can assume, next time, I'm not that stupid.

I doubt Keith even has a cloak. Unless he's a Star Wars fan, too.

It would be nice if it were a double bluff and he was, on getting elected, going to turn Red again, but we know that's not the case. He seems to be being more honest recently. Whether one agrees with what he's saying and subsequently votes for that is another matter.

So, back to ...

SO what do we all do? Green? Libs?

SNP not an option here.

 

[redsquirrel]

If you don't vote them in, how will we ever know?

It would be nice if it were a double bluff and he was, on getting rejected, going to turn Red again, but we know that's not the case. He seems to be being more honest recently.

So despite what you said before, we can have a pretty good idea about the direction of travel of a Labour government.


As for 'what do we all do?', well that question was answered on the first page and been repeated every 5 or so pages since - do not equate voting with politics.

 

[Pickman's model]

My comment is nothing of the sort.
I'm responding to wasting votes being a way of maintaining the existing government and there being no meaningful alternative.

You can assume, next time, I'm not that stupid.

I doubt Keith even has a cloak. Unless he's a Star Wars fan, too.

It would be nice if it were a double bluff and he was, on getting elected, going to turn Red again, but we know that's not the case. He seems to be being more honest recently. Whether one agrees with what he's saying and subsequently votes for that is another matter.

So, back to ...

Tbh it'd be good if he could turn slightly pink