Hating the police
- Thread starter Meltingpot
- Start date
xes
F.O.A.D
Well, the institutionalisation of the police and the orders they so faithfully follow come from above, in goverment. The goverment is also 100% corrupt from top to bottom, what should happen there? Well, I wouldn't want to highlight myself as a potential "terrorist" (ie- anyone who doesn't bend over and take it for queen and country) on a public forum now, would I
I think the occupy lot are addressing some issues which pertain to goverment corruption and greed. It's all encompassed, all part of the same evil. It needs to be taken appart and rebuilt from scratch.
1%er
Well-Known Member
That is why I was mildly confused by frogwomens post when she said "it doesn't mean getting rid of them", it seems to me the answer is to get rid of them, but that doesn't mean communities don't need some from of protection against criminals and antisocial people and groups.Well, the institutionalisation of the police and the orders they so faithfully follow come from above, in goverment. The goverment is also 100% corrupt from top to bottom, what should happen there? Well, I wouldn't want to highlight myself as a potential "terrorist" (ie- anyone who doesn't bend over and take it for queen and country) on a public forum now, would I
xes
F.O.A.D
Maybe the answer isn't as complicated as it seems, there was a villiage on the edge on Lancs, was in the news recently. They've been planting fruit and veg all around the villiage and people having been feeding themselves for free. They said crime had gone down dramatically. So maybe if we could veer toward a more self sufficiant society, where we're not dependant on a goverment to wipe our arses and tell us what we can or can't do, then just maybe, people wouldnd't feel the need to comit crime. Ofcourse there's always going to be some wanker who's got malicious intent, and then we do need someone upstanding to help us. But if we could take it (our lives) all out of the hands of the goverments, and back into the hands of the people, we'd be able to do this without resorting to having Nazis stomping round in storm trooper uniforms.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
As eloquently pointed out by froggy and others above, the OP poses a false dichotomy: the policing we have vs no policing at all. We need policing which meets the needs of communities, not the needs of those who are screwing over these communities.
This article is about a consultation on domestic violence, but it makes some really good points which apply more generally:
This article is about a consultation on domestic violence, but it makes some really good points which apply more generally:
PCSOs 
Meltingpot
Living in our pools we soon forget about the sea
I don't think I did that at all. I said this;
"So, what do those who dislike the police think should happen instead? Or, do you want reform rather than abolition (which is the impression I sometimes get on here)?"
Hence, I did mention the option of reform for those who wanted to consider or discuss it.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It isn't just the issues of corruption and bias that are problems - though obviously they're very important, and arguably an intrinsic result of the way the police force is set up. But you could have a force full of prejudice free scrupulously honest Dixon Of Dock Greens and the political purpose of the force would still be the same, and the interests of the laws that they enforce.
xes
F.O.A.D
which is where these alleged dixon of dock green types would say "no, this is wrong, this is not what a police officer does" and refuse to do what ever oppressive laws they were being told to carry out. It's kind of a litmus test for the morals of a police officer. if they are willing to carry out such orders, then they are unfit for the job.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
xes
F.O.A.D
And if those canibals keep trying
to sacrifice us to their pride
they soon shall hear the bullets flying
we'll shoot the generals on our own side
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Fair enough - I got distracted by your "but the police helped me when I really needed them" bit. It's an irrelevant point to make unless you're assuming that those who criticise the police want no policing at all.
I despise the police, but I want more coppers on the streets. I want them protecting working-class communities from crime, not increasing criminality by harrassing and bullying the youth whilst failing to investigate crimes reported by the powerless. I want them to have the courage to report officers who abuse their position and speak out against the criminality within their ranks.
They need to be answerable to the communities they police, they need to live within the communities they police, and their incomes need to be brought into line with those of the people they police. At the moment, a constable fresh out of school starts on the same salary as a junior doctor, and police pay-scales match those of doctors all the way through the ranks, divorcing them from the reality of life for the vast majority of people they are tasked with protecting.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
this debate seems overwhelmed with concentrating on politics and framing the police as being purely there to protect the interests of the powerful and the wealthy.
Whilst I wouldnt seek to deny that they serve this function, they do far more apprehending of common crooks - people who target their own communities with theft & violence. How do people suggest society should react to such instances?
Whilst I wouldnt seek to deny that they serve this function, they do far more apprehending of common crooks - people who target their own communities with theft & violence. How do people suggest society should react to such instances?
xes
F.O.A.D
Nobody is saying that there shouldn't be a police force, nor that actual criminals shouldn't be arrested. Please read the thread, this has been discussed more than once on it already.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Yes, it does. I've posted about them being overpaid an' all. Although it is worth pointing out that junior doctors have to work 90+ hours a week just to get enough experience to qualify in a reasonable time-frame, so constables are getting more than twice the hourly pay and can earn a fortune in overtime over and above that.
The point I'm making is that these mostly working-class constables walk into a job with very little training and get a starting salary which is way above the median for the entire workforce. Very few people have much awareness of what others are paid and tend to assume that they're about average. It encourages them to assume that those who are poor are feckless rather than underpaid.
Facts and figures to back up this assertion please.
Do you know, I can't find a break down of police departments, their duties and numbers in each department. This would be the ideal measure of how police resources are allocated, obviously.
But if we look at the prison numbers, we might be able to infer from the crimes people are sentenced for roughly which areas are concentrated on most by the authorities...
Page 4 of this document gives the august 2010 figures. Mostly burglary, violence, sexual offences, robbery, theft etc. http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/docs/pop-in-custody-aug2010.pdf
Do you dispute my assertion? Do you have any facts and figures to back this up?
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
All those people in prison are political prisoners, as the recent riots proved...
Yeah, if you say so. Raping people is a political act!
xes
F.O.A.D
Why even bother, nobody is saying that we don;t need a police force, and this point has been done on the last page. We know there are bad people out there who need to be dealt with for crimes commited. This isn't about that, this is about the attitude of the police toward the general public, and how they go around using intimidation and force against peaceful, normal people. They treat everyone as a criminal, because that is now their job, if you can find some backwards arse bylaw to try and turn as many members of the public as possible into criminals, so then the courts can fine them, and the investors get a nice big fat return. This is about the police abusing their position and commiting crimes routinely, and then getting all sulky when people fucking hate them.
now, we can do the whole circle jerk thing where we go over and over with the same point. But that's utterly pointless, as it's been done, and done well on page 1. or are you here to ensure that no discussion takes place and the topic crumbles?
now, we can do the whole circle jerk thing where we go over and over with the same point. But that's utterly pointless, as it's been done, and done well on page 1. or are you here to ensure that no discussion takes place and the topic crumbles?
All I am saying is you have made an assertion, can you back it up?
So far you have not.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
It is. It's the result of society's sexual inequality
If you say so. But if no one is disputing the assertion (because it so mind-numbingly self-evident that only a total idiot would seriously dispute it...), then why would I need to back it up.
Though the prison numbers really do go a long way in showing exactly where resources in the criminal justice system are targeted.
Right on!
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