Hating the police

[Meltingpot]

I've seen a number of posts and threads here saying that the poster or OP hates the police. I accept they're not perfect, but what do people who take this view think we should do instead?

I'm not looking for sympathy here (and I've had plenty in RL anyway) but the fact remains that I have suffered a fairly serious assault recently, and I was very lucky that the consequences weren't more severe. As a result of my contacting the police about this, I've been contacted by Victim Support and they've promised to send me a panic alarm.

So, what do those who dislike the police think should happen instead? Or, do you want reform rather than abolition (which is the impression I sometimes get on here)?

 

[DotCommunist]

back to hue and cry, assizes, yeomanry etc

 

[Pickman's model]

Meltingpot

apart from providing referrals to victim support what do you think the police are there for?

 

[1%er]

I've seen a number of posts and threads here saying that the poster or OP hates the police. I accept they're not perfect, but what do people who take this view think we should do instead?

There are 10's of thousands of towns and villages around the world where people never see the police, what do you think people in those ares do?

 

[frogwoman]

it's posturing bollocks but there is a serious point. the police exist largely not to defend the people but to defend the interests of the state and capital, they do this through the use of force. disliking the police as an institution isn't the same as disliking individual officers, although some people view anyone who joins the police as a cunt. it's something i cant agree with tbh, and even if they are, you cannot just abandon these people to the right. however, the brutality of for example the met police and the disproportionate sentences handed down to people who stole bottles of water etc, does demonstrate that the police's function isn't solely to investigate crime.

but so do a lot of things in bourgeois society for example parts of the educational system serve to replicate either explicitly or implicitly, the ruling ideology (or attempt to, anyway, and you can see this in attempts to teach "the big society" in universities etc, it's got a lot more naked in recent years) and also to prepare people for the workplace.

that doesn't however, in my view mean that attacks on the conditions and pay etc of police officers and prison officers shouldn't be fought and i would argue that the police should have the right to strike. the government in this country has removed the right to strike from the police and i believe that part of the reason for this is to separate them from the rest of society.

that said, i would also argue that the indoctrination that police (and i think especially those in urban areas such as the met) recieve in their training is such that they do come to see themselves as different from the rest of society anyway. a former friend of my sisters has joined the police and i've heard some shocking stories from her tbh about how they behave and how they are encouraged to behave, for example officers being told they are allowed to be racist etc "as long as they don't get caught".

it's a complicated issue to be sure and i think that the average village copper (a dying breed these days given the police cuts which have taken place under successive governments) and for example people investigating murders or even other forms of serious crime differ from for example those in charge of policing demonstrations or riots. i don't think the police are all cunts and would always argue against this but i don't think we can ignore the functions they perform in society and what they are allowed and encouraged to get away with on an individual level as well as the fact that some groups of people are criminalised far more than others. and their ultimate role which is often not really about protecting people from crime at all.

 

[Meltingpot]

I agree with some of what's been said above, and was impressed in particular with froggy's post.

The police, by and large, are fairly conventional people who don't instinctively seem to understand or sympathise with alternative lifestyles or viewpoints. I think that much is true, having once had an IT lecturer who was a bit of a hippy and told me he'd got a kicking from the police simply because he had long dreadlocks.

But wouldn't the answer to that be to change their recruitment criteria?

 

[Meltingpot]

There are 10's of thousands of towns and villages around the world where people never see the police, what do you think people in those ares do?

At a guess, much as we did before Peel. From my admittedly sketchy knowledge of social history I think those days were worse.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

There are 10's of thousands of towns and villages around the world where people never see the police, what do you think people in those ares do?

Know each other and the odd lynching?

 

[Ax^]

There are 10's of thousands of towns and villages around the world where people never see the police, what do you think people in those ares do?

keep out the immos

*i'm being flippant and joking btw*

 

[frogwoman]

I agree with some of what's been said above, and was impressed in particular with froggy's post.

The police, by and large, are fairly conventional people who don't instinctively seem to understand or sympathise with alternative lifestyles or viewpoints. I think that much is true, having once had an IT lecturer who was a bit of a hippy and told me he'd got a kicking from the police simply because he had long dreadlocks.

But wouldn't the answer to that be to change their recruitment criteria?

no. it isn't just the personality of the individual officers that contributes to this, it is the nature of the work and the isolating and alienating nature of it, the fact that they both become separated from the rest of society by the nature of their work and are encouraged to think of themselves that way because of the conditioning they receive during the training, the institutional culture of believing they all have to cover for each other etc. cosmetic changes i don't think would do anything to change it because it's to do with the way the institution is run, the institutional culture built up over decades AND the function of the police and their role in protecting the state and capital.

 

[frogwoman]

and of course the answer isnt to get rid of the police ffs.

 

[xes]

It's not always posturing bollocks from me, sometimes yes, but I genuinly do absolutly hate the police, not because I'm some webel teenage twat either. Firstly, if you ask my mother, I have always had a problem with "authority". Nobody has authority over anyone, it's a farce. if you give your will for them to have authority over you, then that's your lookout, but I refuse to acknoledge it if I'm doing no wrong. If someone's commiting an actual crime then ofcourse, they should be arrested and tried within the law, for those crimes. (without getting the shit kicked out of them, or having trumped up imaginary charges brought against them) But police aren't there to solve crime or keep us safe. Their actions on a daily basis prove this. "racially profiled" stop and searches all day long, on the spot fines if you fart too loud, harrassing people for no good reason, using anti terrorism laws on anyone with a camera and all manor of other abuses which are within their "power". And that's the thing, they've been told that they can do something, and then they think that it makes it right. If a memo was sent round telling them that their little handbook had been adjusted, so that now it says that they have to go round and shoot every child under 6 months old, I have no doubt in my mind that there are many officers out there who would blindly and without question follow those orders. The police are basically there now, to try and criminalise as much of society as they can, to raise as much money they can, as the investors in the police force want to make a profit. The police do not protect people, and you are not innocent until proven guilty. The police protect goverments and big buisiness' interests. They have been militarized, long gone are the days of a police officer you could trust to act honerably, or even so much as ask direction. What we have in place now, are a bunch of jumped up jackboot boys who get off on intimidation and belittlement.

Breaking the law is common practice for the police, and wether it's letting each other off with parking/speeding fines, or murder, you can bet your arse that unless they can really really help it, no officer will face any kind of punnishment for their crime. Infact, they bend and tweak every law they can, to ensure that they do walk out with a big "fuck you" smile on their faces, becasue they see themselves as above the law. And so does the legal system, or so it would seem. These are the people who are supposed to represent the law, and they don't have to stick to it, they know they don't. These are the people who should hold themselves to a higher accountability, and behave as they want everyone else to behave, but they don't, do they? They do the exact opposite.

What would I like to see happen? Well, if, as I keep on hearing, there are good cops. I'd like to see those good cops rid the force of the cunts. Instead of working alongside them and ignoring it, and just accepting it as how it is. If these "good cops" do nothing, then they are just a big a part of the problem. I'd like to see orders which go against peoples human rights, ignored. I'd like to see police with a little tiny bit of human compassion and understanding, instead of the mindless, order following zombies that we have now. Officers with the ability to think would be nice too. You know, ones who know the difference between right and wrong, and don't just blindly follow orders and then use some piss poor legalese mumbo jumbo bullshit to justify violence against innocent people. Just once, if a copper could say "no, that's wrong to do that" my faith could be restored. (maybe) Still, we can all dream, can't we, becasue it's never going to happen, becasue of the type of person the police force attracts. The type of people who like to terrorise others, sadists who couldn't care less about you or anyone else.

So, how am i supposed to feel about them? I can't respect any of that. And I never will. They should be judged by their actions as individuals AND as a whole. They represent the law. And the law is a fucking joke. And their actions define the vast majority of them as utter cunts, and these good cops who do nothing about them are also utter cunts. Ergo....ACAB.

I won't even start on protest cops

 

[ayatollah]

I've met a few nice, quite human, police, both socially, and even on occasion at "events" of a "public order " nature, but when push came to shove they've never once broken ranks and decided to JOIN in on a picket line, rather than beat up those of us on one, so yeh, when we're in individual bother, or you get stopped for some traffic offence, thank gawd for the nicer ones... but it is a key part of the capitalist property and social order protecting arm of the state at the end of the day, so DON'T start liking or trusting the buggers as an institution or you are FUCKED politically. (Especially when after "doing you a favour" they might come round wondering if you could do them one in return....)

 

[discokermit]

back to hue and cry, assizes, yeomanry etc

All Yeomen Are Bastards.

 

[Yossarian]

The police are basically there now, to try and criminalise as much of society as they can, to raise as much money they can, as the investors in the police force want to make a profit. The police do not protect people, and you are not innocent until proven guilty. The police protect goverments and big buisiness' interests. They have been militarized, long gone are the days of a police officer you could trust to act honerably, or even so much as ask direction. What we have in place now, are a bunch of jumped up jackboot boys who get off on intimidation and belittlement.

I wish I could like this post twice. People defending the police point to individual occasions when they've been helped out by the police - it's like pointing to all the times when Dr. Shipman saved lives or delivered babies.

 

[imposs1904]

back to hue and cry, assizes, yeomanry etc

*insert Pat Kane joke here*

 

[xes]

I've met a few nice, quite human, police, both socially, and even on occasion at "events" of a "public order " nature, but when push came to shove they've never once broken ranks and decided to JOIN in on a picket line, rather than beat up those of us on one, so yeh, when we're in individual bother, or you get stopped for some traffic offence, thank gawd for the nicer ones... but it is a key part of the capitalist property and social order protecting arm of the state at the end of the day, so DON'T start liking or trusting the buggers as an institution or you are FUCKED politically. (Especially when after "doing you a favour" they might come round wondering if you could do them one in return....)

Liking or trusting them? LOL

Not in my lifetime.

 

[1%er]

and of course the answer isnt to get rid of the police ffs.

Isn't it? Your first point in your post above makes this claim "the police exist largely not to defend the people but to defend the interests of the state and capital, they do this through the use of force", but then go on to say the answer isn't to get rid of the police.

I am mildly confused by your two posts

 

[xes]

Isn't it? Your first point in your post above makes this claim "the police exist largely not to defend the people but to defend the interests of the state and capital, they do this through the use of force", but then go on to say the answer isn't to get rid of the police.

I am mildly confused by your two posts

You don;t have to get rid of them, just employ people with some empathy and intelligence. In the test to become a cop there should be a trick question like "do you like to kick the shit out of people for lulz" and if they answer yes, they get led into a room and are never seen again. (I may have simplified the question, I'm sure you know what I mean)

 

[SpookyFrank]

I challenge anyone who has seen a copper beating a defenceless teenage girl around the head with a baton to feel anything but hatred for the police.

There are many other reasons. But nothing has ever filled me with such rage as the sight of police officers attacking innocent people, or more specifically the look in their eyes when they do it. The look in their eyes when they deny injured people access to medical treatment just because they can. The look of sheer delight at their ability to terrify, to brutalise, to control. And there is no fear of reprisal or punishment because they know they're doing exactly what their masters want them to do. When you first see that look in a copper's eye two things happen; firstly you realise that there really is such a thing as evil and secondly you know that you will never trust a police officer again.

 

[1%er]

You don;t have to get rid of them, just employ people with some empathy and intelligence. In the test to become a cop there should be a trick question like "do you like to kick the shit out of people for lulz" and if they answer yes, they get led into a room and are never seen again. (I may have simplified the question, I'm sure you know what I mean)

I think you miss the point, Frogwomen is talking about the institution of the police in the text I have quoted above, not individuals.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

its more than hating the 'police'... its a hatred of the state...
London is gonna know what its like to live under 'martial law' during the olympics.... 30,000 soldiers deployed (more than afghanistan) plus 'police' support....
any state lovers come back to me then....

 

[Pickman's model]

I wish I could like this post twice. People defending the police point to individual occasions when they've been helped out by the police - it's like pointing to all the times when Dr. Shipman saved lives or delivered babies.

it's like pointing to the odd ss man who saved a jew or whatnot, it's one person on one occasion doing something that in most other circumstances would go unremarked.

 

[audiotech]

It's not about hating the f*ckers. It's understanding that they have powers that you don't have.

That's all.

 

[xes]

It's not about hating the f*ckers. It's understanding that they have powers that you don't have.

That's all.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's not about hating the f*ckers. It's understanding that they have powers that you don't have.

That's all.

they only have powers because other people agree to abide by them. in any case it's not about them having powers i don't. it's about their role in society, it's about their corruption, it's about how fucking useless they are at what's supposed to be their primary purpose, it's about their racism, it's about their sexism, it's about their violence, it's about their very existence.

 

[SpookyFrank]

its more than hating the 'police'... its a hatred of the state...

Yeah, that's about the size of it.

I do find the criminal justice system particularly odious though. It is based on the idea that suffering can and should be repaid with more suffering. I can scarcely think of a more heinous criminal than a person who considers themselves fit to decide how much of a person's life should be taken away from them in order to restore balance and fairness to the world. The world is unfair, the world is unbalanced. Beware anyone who claims they can rectify this state of affairs, particularly if the method they suggest involves the removal of dignity, safety, family and self-determination from another human being.

 

[souljacker]

It was the battle of the beanfield that swung it for me. Not just the individual actions of the coppers, but the way it was seemingly organised and, to some degree, covered up by the state.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Yeah, that's about the size of it.

I do find the criminal justice system particularly odious though. It is based on the idea that suffering can and should be repaid with more suffering. I can scarcely think of a more heinous criminal than a person who considers themselves fit to decide how much of a person's life should be taken away from them in order to restore balance and fairness to the world. The world is unfair, the world is unbalanced. Beware anyone who claims they can rectify this state of affairs, particularly if the method they suggest involves the removal of dignity, safety, family and self-determination from another human being.

What would you suggest as an alternative?

 

[audiotech]

That reminds me of the "are you a jedi" video

Obi-Wan Kenobi came bursting through my door once, rather than some glowing wand in hand it turned out to be pepperspray.


Edit: I didn't "abide" you see Pickman's.