Global financial system implosion begins
- Thread starter Falcon
- Start date
I can well imagine formerly middle class people using food banks.
Doesn't sound good? No old publishers at the top of the company?
I still think abandoning the net book agreement was a mistake.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It is the abandoning of the training the next generation here that I find most deplorable. That's immoral. It is your social, moral obligation as an employer to train staff, imo. You've no business being an employer otherwise. You're just a leech. But publishers are now only training staff in India. They don't train anyone here at all. They're starting to see the false economy of this. Years too bloody late - I could have told them and save them a fortune - and the whole thing is starting to unravel. And India will be left with nothing when they pull out, just people trained in publishing for an Indian publishing industry that does not exist.
Dependency theory explains this well: production to meet the needs of the centre; profits exported; industry collapses as soon as the foreigner pulls out.
Dependency theory explains this well: production to meet the needs of the centre; profits exported; industry collapses as soon as the foreigner pulls out.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
20 years ago at least, that was. I agree - it was great for the diversity of titles published here. No chance of it surviving, though.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Nothing is seen as having value unless it bumps up the balance sheet in the very short term, and everyone's motto is to grab what they can and get the fuck out of dodge before shit goes to the wall. And you have these ludicrous shows like Dragon's Den where acting like that is seen as something to aspire to.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ah, but this is where there was long-term confidence in the savings to be made from relocating to India, which involved large short-term costs. They were convinced by the arguments, but I work for several different publishers who now have Delhi offices and have worked with those offices. I would love to see an honest audit of the costs/benefit of those offices, taking into account everything. But the people at the top who made the decisions don't want to see those figures as they, personally would be out of a job, so they attempt to steer the ship further and further towards the iceberg, hiding the real costs wherever they can.
One effect of those offices, though, is a suppression of wages here. I doubt the bosses even realise the wider consequences of that.
And the profits aren't even imported to the centre.
Forbes. 8/01/2013
$776 billion
The problem isn't with supply. It's with it accumulating in to too few hands.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, indeed.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I think some of them probably do, but are basically looking out for themselves and their families.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
yep, that's probably true. A tiny bit of denial, though, no, just to make them sleep at night.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
OK, an attempt at a rebuttal of Dr Jon's position.
First, don't misinterpret a description of the current situation as a defence of it. However, I will give a reason why fiat money - money created simply due to demand for it - should not be dismissed as simplistically evil.
Put simply, fiat money is the purest, most honest form of money there is. Freed of the pretense of any objective value to the money itself, it is seen that the money's value exists purely in the transaction it represents. That is what money is for and any concern with the independent value of the means of exchange merely distracts from the reason the money was created in the first place.
So every piece of money represents an obligation from one person to another. And such obligations can be traded. The interest due on those obligations necessitates that ever larger obligations must be taken out (I know some dispute this - I'll take you to task if you challenge me - it is absolutely and necessarily true).
As such, fiat money is the best form of money we have come up with. It abstracts value completely.
Now we have separate arguments about whether or not certain kinds of value ought to be tradable with certain other kinds of value. And here, my answer is that there should be at least two separate non-interchangeable forms of money, and possibly more than two. But to deny the creative power of fiat money is wrong. It is both to overestimate the role of money in current problems and underestimate it. I say this because it does not recognise the role of money in facilitating interactions, but it also does not recognise the various paths forward that exist, which do not involve a return to a gold standard or anything like it.
First, don't misinterpret a description of the current situation as a defence of it. However, I will give a reason why fiat money - money created simply due to demand for it - should not be dismissed as simplistically evil.
Put simply, fiat money is the purest, most honest form of money there is. Freed of the pretense of any objective value to the money itself, it is seen that the money's value exists purely in the transaction it represents. That is what money is for and any concern with the independent value of the means of exchange merely distracts from the reason the money was created in the first place.
So every piece of money represents an obligation from one person to another. And such obligations can be traded. The interest due on those obligations necessitates that ever larger obligations must be taken out (I know some dispute this - I'll take you to task if you challenge me - it is absolutely and necessarily true).
As such, fiat money is the best form of money we have come up with. It abstracts value completely.
Now we have separate arguments about whether or not certain kinds of value ought to be tradable with certain other kinds of value. And here, my answer is that there should be at least two separate non-interchangeable forms of money, and possibly more than two. But to deny the creative power of fiat money is wrong. It is both to overestimate the role of money in current problems and underestimate it. I say this because it does not recognise the role of money in facilitating interactions, but it also does not recognise the various paths forward that exist, which do not involve a return to a gold standard or anything like it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
So, in short fiat money? What is wrong with it and how will your alternative suggestion work better? That is my challenge to DrJon.
It is a genuine challenge, because I would like to hear of a good alternative. I really would. But please don't give me links. Argue the case in your own words.
It is a genuine challenge, because I would like to hear of a good alternative. I really would. But please don't give me links. Argue the case in your own words.
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This sounds like a school assignment ffs!
It is at the root of most of the problems we face today. Created out of nothing and lent out at interest, it is the main cause of the persuit of growth. On a finite planet, such a system can only "work" until the limits to growth are reached. Beyond that point it's downhill all the way, regardless of how much money is printed, until the system falls over.
A system of money that is finite and stable is necessary for a stable economy on a finite planet. Experiments with local currencies are encouraging. For transactions beyond localities, some finite tangible medium, widely accepted as a store of value is required. Whether this is Gold or something else is open to debate, although Gold is already recognised and accepted as such the world over.
Jesus not more of this "money out of thin air" bullshit. Haven't we gone over this shit a million times already with Jazzz and the othher fly-by-night ultra right wing libertarians who end up here?
free spirit
more tea vicar?
the air in this room obviously isn't thin enough, I just tried really hard and it just refuses to turn into money.
Then again, I'd have been properly fucked if it had as I don't think I can breath money yet, so that was probably a lucky escape
8ball
Decolonise colons!
You get some lefty types who believe that too.
If you believe they can just invent money it becomes really hard to explain things like what happened to Northern Rock.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Just turn half of the air in the room into money ffs!
Jeez - you're like those people who jump off buildings after taking acid thinking they can fly. Try taking off from the ground first, morons!
free spirit
more tea vicar?
they can effectively create digital money that resides in digital format within bank accounts held within the bank that is many many multiples of their actual ability to translate that digital money into actual bank notes or transfers of currency between banks in the event that a significant number of the holders of that digital money decide at the same time to either withdraw that money in cash, or transfer it to another bank.
So no, they can't actually create money as such, they can just create vast lines of credit that they hope will never be drawn upon all at once.
The thing is that ability to create money is contingent on real world obligations and liabilities.
As 8ball said, if they could just magic money out of nowhere, with no consequence or relation to real-world experience, then why did they go begging to the government for a bailout? Couldn't they just magic up some more money? Was there a thin air shortage on wall street?
As 8ball said, if they could just magic money out of nowhere, with no consequence or relation to real-world experience, then why did they go begging to the government for a bailout? Couldn't they just magic up some more money? Was there a thin air shortage on wall street?
from:Herman Daly said:
Nationalize Money, Not Banks
Professor Daly was a Senior Economist with the World Bank, so I suspect he knows more about this than any of us.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
There's no magic. There's just rules for how much credit can be extended by banks and protected by the state.
Basically credit is not grain.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
because they were in danger of running out of the ability to actually settle up accounts with each other, and can't magic up that type of hard currency.
if it ain't so, then how come the government (and pretty much the entire financial world via the Basel III agreement) felt the need to introduce a 3% minimum capital reserve ratio recently, and how come Barclays are struggling to meet even that level?
JPMorgan in tentative $13 billion deal with U.S. Justice Department
Reuters. Sun Oct 20, 2013
U.S. housing regulators seek over $6 billion from BofA: FT
Reuters. Sun Oct 20, 2013
FT article behind paywall
How many billions did the big global banks make out of these dodgy mortgage backed securities?
Reuters. Sun Oct 20, 2013
U.S. housing regulators seek over $6 billion from BofA: FT
Reuters. Sun Oct 20, 2013
FT article behind paywall
How many billions did the big global banks make out of these dodgy mortgage backed securities?
City workers face investigation over Libor 'fixing'
Telegraph. 21 Oct 2013
Telegraph. 21 Oct 2013
"But everyone was doing it?!" etc etc. Any chance of them doing serious time?
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Senior Economist, eh? Could it be he's just a living embodiment of Parkinson's Law?
Remus Harbank
Cake and whipped cream…
'senior economists' have been a great help over the last 100 years, that's why everyone is doing so well at the moment…
Economics is NOT science
teqniq
DisMembered
JP Morgan have 'accepted' a $5.1bn fine.
The rest of the article reads like the fall-out from a particularly extravagant cocaine binge, including trying to blame other people for their excesses.
The rest of the article reads like the fall-out from a particularly extravagant cocaine binge, including trying to blame other people for their excesses.
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