Glasgow School of Art Rennie Mackintosh building is on fire

[quimcunx]

What's the benchmark?

How far into a burning building you personally would have gone in order to save some furniture.

 

[belboid]

How do we know it's an amazing job by the fire service? Maybe it was, maybe they should have been able to save the library. Who knows. What's the benchmark?

if you can point out what they could have done better, please do, so we can learn from your knowledge.

Otherwise, please fuck off.

 

[Fedayn]

How do we know it's an amazing job by the fire service? Maybe it was, maybe they should have been able to save the library. Who knows. What's the benchmark?

The benchmark was them risking their lives to save students work, the benchmark was them creating a human wall to get things out....

 

[equationgirl]

Fire suppression system due for upgrade over the summer, but may not have helped:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-27564239

 

[teuchter]

Not sure why I thought there was any chance of having an objective discussion about firefighters. It looks dangerous and they are on the telly, therefore they can use this event for propaganda purposes and we must not dare question anything relating to our Heroes.

 

[belboid]

Not sure why I thought there was any chance of having an objective discussion about firefighters. It looks dangerous and they are on the telly, therefore they can use this event for propaganda purposes and we must not dare question anything relating to our Heroes.

you weren't trying to have an objective discussion, you were being a boring troll and me, you and every other fucker knows it. Mark it up as another fail for you.

 

[Geri]

How do we know it's an amazing job by the fire service? Maybe it was, maybe they should have been able to save the library. Who knows. What's the benchmark?

You've just showed yourself up as the biggest knob on here. And there is some stiff competition.

 

[ddraig]

Not sure why I thought there was any chance of having an objective discussion about firefighters. It looks dangerous and they are on the telly, therefore they can use this event for propaganda purposes and we must not dare question anything relating to our Heroes.

it is called truth you cretin

 

[equationgirl]

Not sure why I thought there was any chance of having an objective discussion about firefighters. It looks dangerous and they are on the telly, therefore they can use this event for propaganda purposes and we must not dare question anything relating to our Heroes.

You want to start a discussion about firefighters in general, go and start a thread about it.

As far as I am concerned - and many people living in Glasgow - they are heroes for saving a unique landmark in the city with no injuries and no loss of life, whilst at the same time risking theirs.

You've acted like an arsehole and been caught out. Now why don't you do this thread a favour and fuck off?

 

[teuchter]

I'll not be taking any lectures from self-important internet rubber-neckers on what I can or can't say on a thread concerning a building and institution that I have a long standing and formative relationship with, thanks.

I am not criticising the firefighters on the scene who seem to have done a decent jpb. It's the hyperbolic commentary and use of an emotive situation to political ends that bothers me a little.

Those who built the new building across the road also put themselves at risk of injury and death to do that job.

 

[equationgirl]

I'll not be taking any lectures from self-important internet rubber-neckers on what I can or can't say on a thread concerning a building and institution that I have a long standing and formative relationship with, thanks.

I am not criticising the firefighters on the scene who seem to have done a decent jpb. It's the hyperbolic commentary and use of an emotive situation to political ends that bothers me a little.

Those who built the new building across the road also put themselves at risk of injury and death to do that job.

Why the denial that you're criticising the firefighters who rescued the building and much of the contents? That's exactly what you did do.

 

[teuchter]

No I didn't.

 

[equationgirl]

How do we know it's an amazing job by the fire service? Maybe it was, maybe they should have been able to save the library. Who knows. What's the benchmark?

So what's this then? Glowing praise for the wonderful job they did?

 

[editor]

This woman certainly seemed impressed with the fire-fighters' actions.

Ms Gray, a former student at the school, confirmed that most of the building was still standing.

"The most amazing, almost miraculous news is that the majority of the building is still intact," she said.

"Due to one of the most astonishingly intelligent and professional pieces of strategy by the fire services, they succeeded in protecting the vast majority of the building, apparently by forming a human wall of firefighters up the west end of the main staircase and containing the fire."


The library was recognised as being one of the finest examples of art nouveau in the world
She added: "Also, after ensuring no lives were in peril, they displayed an impressive understanding of the precious nature of the building, and due to their careful and meticulous handling of each developing situation the damage is considerably less than we dreaded.

"We have run out of words with which to thank them, but the school has most certainly gained a new gallery of heroes."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-27556659

 

[steeplejack]

It's awful news- I missed this over the weekend, having been away from the internet. Dreadful stuff.

*However* no one was hurt and the archives were saved. It is awful that the library has gone but it can be re-built and, i am certain, the vast majority of the stock replaced, over time.

Really, really sad too about the student work irretrievably lost. A hard one to take around the time of the final degree show. The painters, drawers, and sculptors who lost their work must be inconsolable.

 

[equationgirl]

Although the library can be rebuilt - looking at the photos much of the west wing will have to be reconstructed - it won't be the same. It might look similar but it won't be identical. It will be better than not having it at all, of course.

 

[teuchter]

So what's this then? Glowing praise for the wonderful job they did?

It's neither praise nor criticism of the firefighters. It's a question relating to comments made by others. It is possible to work this out by, well, reading it.

 

[equationgirl]

It's neither praise nor criticism of the firefighters. It's a question relating to comments made by others. It is possible to work this out by, well, reading it.

Nice backpedalling there. Funny how several people have all read your comments as criticism, despite your claims to the contrary.

You seem to delight in pissing people off.

 

[teuchter]

No backpedalling whatsoever. And entirely business as usual with certain people reading what they want me to have said into what I have actually written.

 

[belboid]

No I didn't.

Let's just assume you are being entirely genuine, which I kind doubt. But if you are...

Time and fucking place man. When someone or something you love disappears, it isn't the bet time to be entirely dispassionate. So if you want to start a thread about how firefighters fight fire, please do. But elsewhere.

 

[belboid]

Although the library can be rebuilt - looking at the photos much of the west wing will have to be reconstructed - it won't be the same. It might look similar but it won't be identical. It will be better than not having it at all, of course.

We were discussing this tonight. I can see both arguments, do a beautiful (and they could do a spot on and beautiful) copy, or make something completely afresh. I'd be gutted to lose the original, but...we already have, I think I'd go for a brand new library, as bold as mackintosh was in his day.

 

[teuchter]

The library should be and will be rebuilt to the original design. It's the design that is most significant, not the fabric of the building.

 

[boohoo]

I am not criticising the firefighters on the scene who seem to have done a decent jpb. It's the hyperbolic commentary and use of an emotive situation to political ends that bothers me a little.

Those who built the new building across the road also put themselves at risk of injury and death to do that job.

But why shouldn't the fire service remind the public and the government about what an amazing job they do?

(the danger of the construction industry is should be another thread really - 4 deaths in London this year already)

 

[teuchter]

If it's ok to use this tragedy to promote the interests of firefighters then it should be ok to question some of the claims that are being made. Only one half of that discussion seems to be acceptable on this thread though. The facts we have at the moment are: there was a fire, everyone got out of the building safely, some of the building was lost, some of it was saved. And from these facts we are jumping straight to breathless comments on the exceptionally amazing heroic work of the fire service. They did their job and thankfully much of the building survived intact. We don't know enough to say whether what they achieved was exceptional in the circumstances or in line with what would be expected from any competent fire service. We don't know if extra people on the scene would have made a significant difference. Perhaps these questions will be examined properly in due course and perhaps they will demonstrate in an objective way that proposed cuts would have led to a different outcome in this instance. But as soon as we are talking about "heros" objective discussion is out the window, as would be accepted on urban if it was in relation to other subject matter.

Let's not forget about all the other people whose everyday work over time contributed to the safe evacuation of the building - the fire safety inspectors, building managers, and so on. Surely they deserve just as much credit.

 

[Pickman's model]

The library should be and will be rebuilt to the original design. It's the design that is most significant, not the fabric of the building.

while the library "will be" rebuilt to the original design, much has changed in libraries over the past 100 years and it may be that a different design would be better for library staff and users although less in keeping with the building's design.

 

[boohoo]

If it's ok to use this tragedy to promote the interests of firefighters then it should be ok to question some of the claims that are being made. Only one half of that discussion seems to be acceptable on this thread though. The facts we have at the moment are: there was a fire, everyone got out of the building safely, some of the building was lost, some of it was saved. And from these facts we are jumping straight to breathless comments on the exceptionally amazing heroic work of the fire service. They did their job and thankfully much of the building survived intact. We don't know enough to say whether what they achieved was exceptional in the circumstances or in line with what would be expected from any competent fire service. We don't know if extra people on the scene would have made a significant difference. Perhaps these questions will be examined properly in due course and perhaps they will demonstrate in an objective way that proposed cuts would have led to a different outcome in this instance. But as soon as we are talking about "heros" objective discussion is out the window, as would be accepted on urban if it was in relation to other subject matter.

Let's not forget about all the other people whose everyday work over time contributed to the safe evacuation of the building - the fire safety inspectors, building managers, and so on. Surely they deserve just as much credit.

I'm sure some of the questions you ask will be examined at some point (probably not by urban). Most of us have chosen not to be a firefighter and see it as incredibly brave work (often seen as heroic) because of risk to life (although as you have pointed out, other work is equally as dangerous). We don't have a measure or understanding of whether they made the right or wrong decisions when saving the building. However we know here and in other examples (such as the Cummings Museum) they have valued the importance of the structure and its' content to plan their fire fighting around this understanding.

I think of firemen as heroes in their day to day job because I'm not brave enough to risk my life in that way. Doesn't mean we can't discuss their work however perhaps this isn't the thread for it and perhaps this idea of heroes (people who work on the lifeboats, etc) could be a discussion elsewhere (with an OP which puts forward your point of view teuchter)

All the other people mentioned have jobs that most of us would be happy to do hence why even though their work might play a very important role in the building's safety we don't see them as heroes.

 

[boohoo]

while the library "will be" rebuilt to the original design, much has changed in libraries over the past 100 years and it may be that a different design would be better for library staff and users although less in keeping with the building's design.

If it is listed, it should be kept to its original design even if it's not as user friendly.

 

[weepiper]

Outside Central Station.

 

[editor]

Outside Central Station.

Nice touch!

 

[equationgirl]

For non-Glaswegians, that's a memorial to those firefighters who lost their lives in the Cheapside Street Whisky Bond fire of 1960, one of the worst peacetime fires in the city. Over 1 million gallons of rum and whisky caught fire, causing an explosion which blew out the walls of building.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheapside_Street_Whisky_Bond_Fire