Getting references is a faff

[Ĝasper]

When I write to a boss about anything I usually get ignored. Including asking for references. So I have repeatedly broken etiquette and just listed them as references anyway. I'd be unemployed otherwise / wouldn't get the new jobs otherwise. Though the bosses do complain about me breaking etiquette like this! Who knows what they say about me! But I think it's now illegal for them to say anything negative.

 

[purves grundy]

But I think it's now illegal for them to say anything negative.

Errmmm...

 

[Supine]

I’ve never supplied a reference. My cv has only said ‘available on request’ for thirty years!

 

[Ĝasper]

Errmmm...

There was a court case about it. Ex employer gave a negative reference. Employment offer was revoked for that reason. And the job seeker took it to court and won. Obviously they can still say what they want, but certain companies might be cautious about it.

 

[Ĝasper]

I’ve never supplied a reference. My cv has only said ‘available on request’ for thirty years!

I'm doing temporary agency work, and was asked to give full references for the past 5 years!

 

[Puddy_Tat]

It's worth establishing what the process is with old employer/s.

Some places want reference requests to go via HR (possibly at head office rather than local place) rather than line manager and it will make everyone's life easier if you direct potential new employer to the right person / department. And it gets more complicated contacting past line managers if they have since moved on.

The "illegal to say anything negative" thing is a bit of an urban myth. Subject to the disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer, my understanding of the case law is that if they say anything that's false or malicious, then they are open to legal action, but if (for example) someone had been sacked for theft, I don't think it would be illegal to say so.

Although a lot of employers cover themselves from any possible argument by having a policy that all they will do is confirm dates of employment, others will only provide information that is a matter of fact (e.g. number of days off sick) rather than a matter of opinion (e.g. whether person is / was any good at the job)

Some places will accept confirmation of dates of employment by seeing your income tax records (which you can get for yourself online) rather than needing to contact old / current employers.

 

[A380]

Almost all large employers public and private sector now don’t give references. They will just give a statement along the lines of:

“A380 worked for Royston Valley Unitary Authority from 3 March 2020 to 2 April 2020.”

 

[Pickman's model]

Almost all large employers public and private sector now don’t give references. They will just give a statement along the lines of:

“A380 worked for Royston Valley Unitary Authority from 3 March 2020 to 2 April 2020.”

Didn't realize you'd been there that long

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Writing references is a faff

I get at least 5 reference requests a week for students and ex students

A lot of them are for agencies so applicants might be contacting quite a few in one day

Some of them are for UCAS pg study

They all take time to get onto different systems and check credentials and facts and time to look up email conversations to remind myself about that particular student.

None of that time is allocated in my work load

This week I've had 5 UCAS requests and 3 agency requests

 

[A380]

Didn't realize you'd been there that long

Suspended pending the disciplinary hearing for three and a half weeks…

 

[bellaozzydog]

I keep getting pinged by colleagues to give references.
I got fed up of it and now have a single set I just cut and paste into an email with the name changed

It’s so generic it’s painful but everyone seems more than happy with them

Dear XXXX

I have been asked to forward a reference for XXXXXX XXXXX

I have worked alongside XXXX in a XXXXX role. XXX is a highly motivated and dynamic consultant he is conscientious and tenacious with a wide range of XXXXX consultant experience

He communicates well both to client management and subcontractors and strives to optimise subcontractor performance and compliance with audit checklists and advice to sub contractors, which is always well delivered and readily accepted

He has a very precise and logical approach to written procedures and is confident generating and editing corporate documentation

I would happily recommend XXXXX for any position he applied for

Now leave me afuckinglone.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I’ve never supplied a reference. My cv has only said ‘available on request’ for thirty years!

I don't even put that, because it's a given, and it takes up space.

 

[marty21]

Almost all large employers public and private sector now don’t give references. They will just give a statement along the lines of:

“A380 worked for Royston Valley Unitary Authority from 3 March 2020 to 2 April 2020.”

"Worked"

 

[Chilli.s]

The thing is to keep a few tame referees around, so when you need it you write the ref yourself, and get to know if the prospective new boss has asked for any details and fill them in to order

 

[romeo2001]

It's worth establishing what the process is with old employer/s.

Some places want reference requests to go via HR (possibly at head office rather than local place) rather than line manager and it will make everyone's life easier if you direct potential new employer to the right person / department. And it gets more complicated contacting past line managers if they have since moved on.

The "illegal to say anything negative" thing is a bit of an urban myth. Subject to the disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer, my understanding of the case law is that if they say anything that's false or malicious, then they are open to legal action, but if (for example) someone had been sacked for theft, I don't think it would be illegal to say so.

Although a lot of employers cover themselves from any possible argument by having a policy that all they will do is confirm dates of employment, others will only provide information that is a matter of fact (e.g. number of days off sick) rather than a matter of opinion (e.g. whether person is / was any good at the job)

Some places will accept confirmation of dates of employment by seeing your income tax records (which you can get for yourself online) rather than needing to contact old / current employers.

Think it also applies only to written refs (or maybe its just cos its provable). So I trick I've noticed some do is give a one line answer - the prospective employer phones the old one for more detail and a character assassination begins.

 

[romeo2001]

I'm doing temporary agency work, and was asked to give full references for the past 5 years!

Same - only mine asked for a tax letter from the ir so they had all the dates in writing so no wriggle room at all!

 

[romeo2001]

The thing is to keep a few tame referees around, so when you need it you write the ref yourself, and get to know if the prospective new boss has asked for any details and fill them in to order

Tried that recently - unfortunately they had left the company and new job wouldn't accept anything from a personal email as it was "essentially classed as a character reference"

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Think it also applies only to written refs (or maybe its just cos its provable). So I trick I've noticed some do is give a one line answer - the prospective employer phones the old one for more detail and a character assassination begins.

 

[StoneRoad]

Getting references for the work produced by my team from previous projects ...

This is a similar situation to getting / giving references for personnel, but has generally been far easier.


Years ago, the change from written details to merely confirming X worked at Y for Z time, was frequently "circumvented" by unofficial meetings / conversations. Unfortunately, this was how some industry "blacklists" were operated.

Personally, I have been on both sides of this situation as a seeker and giver of work & character references.

 

[hitmouse]

Does anyone know if there's any actual reason why you couldn't just get mates to pose as former employers? I did have one job where I had a slight falling-out with HR just as I left regarding the length of my notice period, but I also got on really well with one bloke who'd been my direct supervisor and who left just before I did, so now I just give "[hitmouse'sformersupervisor]@hotmail.co.uk" or similar as my reference for that job. And thinking about it I think my supervisor from the job before that is now retired so if I ever need to give references from that far back I think I'd give that supervisor's personal rather than work email as well. Anyway, both those people are genuine former supervisors/team leaders/managers I've had, but with me giving their personal emails rather than work ones, is there any way it'd be possible to tell them apart from mates pretending to be former employers?

Also, I still resent the fact that when I started a new job in 2017, they told me to give references covering the past five years, so I did and explained that I'd been on JSA for a bit in 2012-13, and they then insisted I had to go and get a letter from the job centre proving that I'd really been on benefits then, to show that I wasn't one of those bullshitters who pretends to be on JSA to make their CV look more impressive.

 

[Elpenor]

A lot of firms don’t accept personal references.

 

[smmudge]

It's true getting references is a pain in the arse. How come companies want a long list of stuff, but then when you want a reference from them all you get is one generic sentence from someone in HR who doesn't even know you.

When I started at this job, as well as 2 employment references they wanted a personal one, from a friend I'd known for 5 years who I wasn't related to. Turns out I didn't really have one thanks for making me feel like a reject already.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Anyway, both those people are genuine former supervisors/team leaders/managers I've had, but with me giving their personal emails rather than work ones, is there any way it'd be possible to tell them apart from mates pretending to be former employers?

A lot of firms don’t accept personal references.

that. and that's why.

I had to go and get a letter from the job centre proving that I'd really been on benefits then, to show that I wasn't one of those bullshitters who pretends to be on JSA to make their CV look more impressive.

suppose that being on the dole might be considered more impressive than being in the nick...

 

[Sue]

Does anyone know if there's any actual reason why you couldn't just get mates to pose as former employers? I did have one job where I had a slight falling-out with HR just as I left regarding the length of my notice period, but I also got on really well with one bloke who'd been my direct supervisor and who left just before I did, so now I just give "[hitmouse'sformersupervisor]@hotmail.co.uk" or similar as my reference for that job. And thinking about it I think my supervisor from the job before that is now retired so if I ever need to give references from that far back I think I'd give that supervisor's personal rather than work email as well. Anyway, both those people are genuine former supervisors/team leaders/managers I've had, but with me giving their personal emails rather than work ones, is there any way it'd be possible to tell them apart from mates pretending to be former employers?

Also, I still resent the fact that when I started a new job in 2017, they told me to give references covering the past five years, so I did and explained that I'd been on JSA for a bit in 2012-13, and they then insisted I had to go and get a letter from the job centre proving that I'd really been on benefits then, to show that I wasn't one of those bullshitters who pretends to be on JSA to make their CV look more impressive.

When I did this recently -- they wanted references going back a bit -- they were fine with people having moved on so therefore using different (even personal) email addresses but they did match things up on LinkedIn.

So if I said 'x person was my manager at y company from this year to that', I think they checked on LinkedIn that x person had worked at y company in the role and for the years given and then that it looked reasonable that they'd been my manager. So if you were a trainee widget maker and your friend was too at that point, nah. If they were senior widget maker or widget maker manager, all good.

I've actually just been asked to give a reference for someone from my last company and they seem fine with that too.

(Obviously you could still fix this but the whole LinkedIn thing would be a pain as it would need to look credible from their POV.)

 

[hitmouse]

When I did this recently -- they wanted references going back a bit -- they were fine with people having moved on so therefore using different (even personal) email addresses but they did match things up on LinkedIn.

So if I said 'x person was my manager at y company from this year to that', I think they checked on LinkedIn that x person had worked at y company in the role and for the years given and then that it looked reasonable that they'd been my manager. So if you were a trainee widget maker and your friend was too at that point, nah. If they were senior widget maker or widget maker manager, all good.

I've actually just been asked to give a reference for someone from my last company and they seem fine with that too.

(Obviously you could still fix this but the whole LinkedIn thing would be a pain as it would need to look credible from their POV.)

Fair enough, like I say both my referees were genuinely widget maker managers or similar. The idea of anyone actually using linkedin for anything is weird to me but then I'm not a HR department.

 

[Sue]

Fair enough, like I say both my referees were genuinely widget maker managers or similar. The idea of anyone actually using linkedin for anything is weird to me but then I'm not a HR department.

Yeah, me too but who knows how these things work .

 

[MickiQ]

Being self-employed, I've had customers ask me for proof that Q Enterprises is a valid concern and ask to see my tax/VAT/returns/company bank statements. Not all though, Evil American Megacorp who made me redundant and have hired me back 3 times since, never have despite being a very large corporate bureaucracy. I like to believe it is because they remember me but it could be that they're such a bunch of shysters they don't care if others are or possibly they've made the people who once did that redundant as well.
When I was there I was asked if I would be a personal reference for several who left since EAM themselves would only confirm employment. I can't remember anyone ever contacting me and taking any of them up though.
Mrs Q quite often gets asked to write references for pupils and former pupils for work or Uni.

 

[weltweit]

I try to get people to accept the references that are on my LinkedIn profile which are people I worked for, with and worked for me.

If they want fresh I give them these names anyhow.

In a few cases the actual companies I worked for no longer exist. They were solvent while I was there, obviously my departure pushed them over the edge

 

[miss direct]

Try being a freelancer/contractor working on short term projects. Always the British companies that are problematic. I'm currently STILL going through enhanced vetting for a position I interviewed for in July and have already started working for. It's an absolute joke.

 

[weltweit]

My last employer asked for names and phone numbers and then had conversations with them.