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German poster campaign launched to find surviving Nazis

I just heard a radio piece about a remaining survivor of Treblinka who just returned. When he arrived he was destined to go into the gas chamber but was told to claim he was a bricklayer and as such was transferred to a work detail. (can't yet find a web page to link to)

One day he came across a very unique coat which had belonged to his sister and realised his sisters had been gassed. After the war he kept this a secret from his mother for the rest of her life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_extermination_camp
 
ViolentPanda

Thinking about your comments on the 'Japanese Comfort Women' thread, ie, that there is an interrelationship between an army's brutality, discipline and the potential for sexual violence, especially in rigid hierarchical societies with a penchant for treating subject peoples badly - it would seem to support the proposition that the armies and other personnel of the German Nazi state in WW2 would not be reticent about the performance of sexual violence.
 
ViolentPanda

Thinking about your comments on the 'Japanese Comfort Women' thread, ie, that there is an interrelationship between an army's brutality, discipline and the potential for sexual violence, especially in rigid hierarchical societies with a penchant for treating subject peoples badly - it would seem to support the proposition that the armies and other personnel of the German Nazi state in WW2 would not be reticent about the performance of sexual violence.

"Seeming" is always a tricky proposition.Your position would require that Germany and Japan were socially similar and had similarly rigid and hierarchical societies. They didn't.
Germany's social hierarchy contemporaneous to modern imperial Japan differed vastly from Japan's, not least in the legal position of women. In Germany women were legally emancipated in, IIRC, the mid 19th century, and gained political suffrage in 1919. In Japan both those things occurred in 1945, at the dissolution of imperial Japan.
While both states had an issue with internal elements "polluting" their bloodlines, the Japanese antipathy to the Ainu was/is a lot older than European anti-Semitism in general, and German anti-Semitism in particular.
Japan's emperor (and those speaking for him) held far greater power than their German contempories. The Japanese emperor guided direct rule of the prefectures, whereas most Lande had their own quasi-democratic governments until Hitler. The German Kaiser was allowed guidance of policy, but didn't have "the final say" in the way his Japanese "cousin" did.

In other words, I can't see where your proposition is coming from, except your arse. :)
 
When German or Japanese women gained suffrage isn't relevant. The women subject to enslavement by the Japanese govt were mostly Korean; just as the women suffering the depredations of the German Army weren't the 'aryan' german women considered to be full citizens: it was the minorities, the Jewish women, the women of subject territories.

Hitler's power at its height at least equalled that of the Emperor, and arguably the cult of personality was as strong. The Japanese Imperial High Command ran the war - ran many things, with the Emperor acting mostly as a rubber stamp. Hitler was the Commander in Chief of the Army, the Head of State, amongst other titles. He took over more and more control of military operations as time went by.
 
"The Japanese emperor guided direct rule of the prefectures, whereas most Lande had their own quasi-democratic governments until Hitler.

But... .we're talking about the war, and the leadup to the war. That's when the subjugation of the comfort women occurred.

The German Gau had quasi dictators like Hans Frank and Erich Koch who reported directly to, and were answerable to, Hitler.
 
When German or Japanese women gained suffrage isn't relevant.

It's entirely relevant, as it speaks to social attitudes within those countries toward women.

The women subject to enslavement by the Japanese govt were mostly Korean;

The supposition that they were mostly Korean was based on the fact that little scholarship had come out of China quantifying the enslavement of Chinese women. Fortunately for posterity (although not for women), that's now changing. It's taken as read that the Japanese military enslaved women in every country they invaded, "administered" and otherwise occupied

just as the women suffering the depredations of the German Army weren't the 'aryan' german women considered to be full citizens: it was the minorities, the Jewish women, the women of subject territories.

So in your opinion, men can and do entirely switch off any social conditioning regarding how they interact with the opposite sex, on the basis of a political belief system they may not even support?
And for those who did buy into the political belief system, why would they be willing to transgress one of the foremost tenets of that belief system - racial hygiene?

I think your argument is poor. It essentialises all men into an amorphous homogenised mass of testosterone, unable to control themselves. Kind of like the way black males used to be essentialised, come to think of it.

Hitler's power at its height at least equalled that of the Emperor, and arguably the cult of personality was as strong.

And these opinions are based on...?

Bear in mind that the cult of the emperor was centuries old, and was fueled at that time by the angst caused by the part-industrial/part-feudal nature of Japan, and was focused not on the personality, but on the divine right embodied in the office, not the office holder.
Hitler's personality cult, on the other hand, was a product not of centuries of accumulated beliefs, it was a product of political propaganda that not even all party-members bought into, and adoption was latterly "encouraged" by the realisation that the regime was as willing to practice night and fog on it's own citizens as on foreigners.

The Japanese Imperial High Command ran the war - ran many things, with the Emperor acting mostly as a rubber stamp.

The emperor was commander in chief of the Japanese military.

Hitler was the Commander in Chief of the Army, the Head of State, amongst other titles. He took over more and more control of military operations as time went by.

Not "as time went by". His obsession for "total control" is easily dated. It stems from the first large reversals in fortune in Soviet territories, as do the executions of generals. Before that Hitler was, as with so many things he involved himself in, a dilitante in military strategy.
 
But... .we're talking about the war, and the leadup to the war. That's when the subjugation of the comfort women occurred.

The German Gau had quasi dictators like Hans Frank and Erich Koch who reported directly to, and were answerable to, Hitler.

So, the past doesn't inform the present and shape the future, then? :facepalm:
 
German Chancellor Angela Merkel visits Dachau camp
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23770834
Angela Merkel has laid a wreath at the former Nazi concentration camp of Dachau, in the first such visit to the site by a German chancellor.

She made a short, emotional speech saying the camp "fills me with deep sadness and shame" and said it was a warning of the dangers of indifference.

The visit is part of Mrs Merkel's election campaign and was followed by a rally in a beer tent nearby.
 
Germany may charge 30 Auschwitz Nazi guards
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23942519
German justice officials have said 30 former Auschwitz death camp guards should face prosecution.
The Baden-Wuerttemberg state justice ministry, heading the investigation, said 49 guards had been investigated, of whom 30 should be prosecuted.
The 30 are spread across Germany, and another seven are living abroad. They are said to be aged up to 97.
 
This may seem a bit naive of me, but are they only going after signed up members of the nazi party? And those who worked at death camps?
 
This may seem a bit naive of me, but are they only going after signed up members of the nazi party? And those who worked at death camps?


Specifically death camp guards, I think. If I understand it correctly there was a ruling in the Demjanjuk (sp?) case that having been a guard was considered enough to make someone party to what went on there, rather than having to prove involvement in specific incidents.
 
This may seem a bit naive of me, but are they only going after signed up members of the nazi party? And those who worked at death camps?
Depends who you are on about - there are two different things being talked about in this article. The original one is about a campaign by the Simon Wiesenthal Center and is only aimed getting inof about war criminals - and that doesn't include members of the nazi party, it means people who did stuff that qualifies as war crimes - membership of the nazi party is neither here nor there in these cases.Given the many millions of members the part had making this a war crime would have made post WW2 west germany...interesting. The second one is the the german state - and we don't know if it was anyhting at all to with the Simon Wiesenthal campaign or not - there has been an ongoing re-examination of the files (some say more for show than anything else and done in total bad faith given the lack of serious de-nazification after WW2).
 
Specifically death camp guards, I think. If I understand it correctly there was a ruling in the Demjanjuk (sp?) case that having been a guard was considered enough to make someone party to what went on there, rather than having to prove involvement in specific incidents.
That ruling has yet to be tested on appeal so i would take it as provisional for now. But it does seem to form the basis for the lastest moves.
 
Depends who you are on about - there are two different things being talked about in this article. The original one is about a campaign by the Simon Wiesenthal Center and is only aimed getting inof about war criminals - and that doesn't include members of the nazi party, it means people who did stuff that qualifies as war crimes - membership of the nazi party is neither here nor there in these cases.Given the many millions of members the part had making this a war crime would have made post WW2 west germany...interesting. The second one is the the german state - and we don't know if it was anyhting at all to with the Simon Wiesenthal campaign or not - there has been an ongoing re-examination of the files (some say more for show than anything else and done in total bad faith given the lack of serious de-nazification after WW2).

Just to add, with regard to "the German state", that the camp-guard prosecution issue is due to a state/lande court (that of Baden-Wurrtemburg) decision, rather than a federal court decision.
 
And the PR machine rolls into action:

Former Auschwitz guard on accessory to murder charge

Prosecutors did not name the man, but German media identified him as Hans Lipschis, who was arrested by German police in May and ranks fourth on the Nazi-hunting group Simon Wiesenthal's list of most wanted Nazi criminals.

Lipschis's arrest was made possible by the 2011 conviction in Munich of Ivan Demjanjuk, who was found to have been an accessory to the murder of almost 28,000 Jews in Sobibor by virtue of having served as a guard at a death camp. He was the first ex-Nazi convicted in Germany without evidence of a specific crime or a specific victim.

Lipschis told the German newspaper Die Welt this year that he had been a cook at Auschwitz and had later left the camp to fight on the eastern front, although he could not remember which unit he had been in.

The head of the German agency that probes Nazi war crimes, Kurt Schrimm, said the accused was on a list of 30 former Auschwitz guards it wants to prosecute for their role in facilitating mass murder.
 

i mean, honestly, does anything think this is a useful trial? a good use of public money? it just seems like scraping the very bottom of the barrel. a 97 year old woman who was a typist at the Stutthof concentration camp when she was 18-19 is tried (in a juvenile court, no less, as she was so young at the time) and given a 2 year suspended sentence for complicity in mass murder.
 
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