G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[DaveCinzano]

IPCC releases three Ian Tomlinson reports - all three vindicate cops.

WHITEWASH.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/investigation_reports.aspx

 

[Corax]

IPCC releases three Ian Tomlinson reports - all three vindicate cops.

WHITEWASH.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/investigation_reports.aspx

Just because none of the 1,000 deaths in custody in the past 20 years have ever resulted in a conviction, for anything, even negligence, you can't go assuming that the IPCC isn't entirely unbiased and even-handed.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just because none of the 1,000 deaths in custody in the past 20 years have ever resulted in a conviction, for anything, even negligence, you can't go assuming that the IPCC isn't entirely unbiased and even-handed.

in all fairness, it's worth pointing out that the ipcc haven't been able to equal the police complaints authority's record because they haven't been around as long.

 

[DaveCinzano]

in all fairness, it's worth pointing out that the ipcc haven't been able to equal the police complaints authority's record because they haven't been around as long.

Well thank the stars for Deborah Glass, the former PCA wonk now running the Ian Tomlinson investigations for the IPCC. With her kind of dedication to independence and investigation we shall surely see some top-notch stain removal.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well thank the stars for Deborah Glass, the former PCA wonk now running the Ian Tomlinson investigations for the IPCC. With her kind of dedication to independence and investigation we shall surely see some top-notch stain removal.

eh? i'm saying that the ipcc are shit. but they haven't had enough time to equal the impressive record of the pca in vindicating police officers.

 

[agricola]

IPCC releases three Ian Tomlinson reports - all three vindicate cops.

WHITEWASH.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/investigation_reports.aspx

As an aside, why do you think the IPCC reports (especially the first one) were a whitewash from the IPCC?

The first one recommended PC Harwood be charged with manslaughter, and fairly conclusively demonstrates that the cause of death was most likely not what Patel claimed it was - in short it appears (based on the reports of what the inquest jury found) to have come to much the same conclusions as jury did in the inquest into Tomlinsons' death. Even the third one recognizes that an acting DI provided the wrong information to one of the subsequent post-mortems, albeit they were not able to prove that he had done so deliberately and maliciously.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

ipcc are ex-coppers am I right?

 

[ymu]

in all fairness, it's worth pointing out that the ipcc haven't been able to equal the police complaints authority's record because they haven't been around as long.

Same difference as abolishing one unit of riot cop thugs and replacing them with another unit of riot cop thugs. If it shows no signs of improvement than it's similarly-tasked predecessor, then the change was merely cosmetic.

I don't know the ins and outs of the procedural changes, but if outcomes don't shift for the better it's no more meaningful than calling Sizewell Sellafield, or Burma Myanmar.

 

[laptop]

The action is moving up the food chain:

Ian Tomlinson death: IPCC rules Met officer 'reckless' in conduct

Detective Inspector Eddie Hall falsely claimed Tomlinson fell down before encountering PC Simon Harwood

You may say that "reckless" is lawyerese for "lied through his teeth", but I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[Corax]

ipcc are ex-coppers am I right?

I don't think they are (the commissioners). But most of them seem to have at least worked 'with' the police...

 

[Louis MacNeice]

ipcc are ex-coppers am I right?

Not all of them; one is a good friend of longstanding who came from a very different background. However, there are a significant number of ex-police.

Louis MacNeice

 

[DaveCinzano]

Biographies of the various commissioners are available on their website:

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/chair_commission.aspx

 

[DaveCinzano]

As an aside, why do you think the IPCC reports (especially the first one) were a whitewash from the IPCC?

The first one recommended PC Harwood be charged with manslaughter, and fairly conclusively demonstrates that the cause of death was most likely not what Patel claimed it was - in short it appears (based on the reports of what the inquest jury found) to have come to much the same conclusions as jury did in the inquest into Tomlinsons' death. Even the third one recognizes that an acting DI provided the wrong information to one of the subsequent post-mortems, albeit they were not able to prove that he had done so deliberately and maliciously.

This deserves a proper response, but I'm knackered so will come back to it later if that's alright.

In précis my 'whitewash' reaction comes from what I saw as a failure to meaningfully follow investigative leads to their logical conclusion; a seeming willingness to choose one possible reason or motivation for an officer's or officers' actions or words which can be seen to have the least negative connotation at a number of investigatory forks (in effect 'rounding down' constantly before tallying up); a willingness to similarly characterise the actions of others (eg the media) in a less favourable light despite not appearing to offer any evidence for this judgement; a failure to clearly identify what each officer did and when; a failure to identify all appropriate chains of command and the relevance of these chains of command to the various decision-making processes; and so on. In essence I think there are clear investigatory and methodological problems with the reports.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Video released by IPCC of commissioner Deborah Glass talking about Tomlinson investigations:

 

[TopCat]

"MPS statement in response to IPCC reports concerning Ian Tomlinson

The Met welcomes the IPCC findings which include that there was no evidence concerning complaints that officers failed to protect Mr Tomlinson from assault and subsequently no case to answer in relation to misconduct.

In addition, complaints about the conduct of MPS officers around Royal Exchange Buildings and alleged failures in first aid were not upheld and the report rightly acknowledges that broader lessons following G20 have been addressed by the MPS.

The IPCC has also found today (9 May) that there was no evidence any MPS police or press officer attempted to mislead.

Since the incident there have been claims that the MPS denied there was prior police contact with Mr Tomlinson. The report finds there is no evidence of this.

The report concerning information supplied to the pathologists by an MPS officer found that although incorrect information was given this was an honestly held belief and there was no evidence of intent to mislead and no lasting damage to the investigation.

These are important findings for the MPS. These investigations have dealt with a series of complaints in a thorough and fair process, which we have fully supported. "

http://www.met.police.uk/pressbureau/Bur09/page03.htm

 

[xes]

load of old fucking bollocks then?

 

[OneStrike]

The decision on any possible prosecution will be announced at around 11.00am tomorrow. The cynic in me spots the timing coincides with Obama arriving here, if i have my times right. I hope it's not timed to relegate the decision down on the news schedules.

 

[OneStrike]

The director of public prosecutions has changed his mind!! A summons has been granted to charge Harwood with manslaughter.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Harwood to face manslaughter charges.

 

[shaman75]

Harwood to face manslaughter charges.

 

[Libertad]

Freddie Patel should be charged with obstruction.

 

[Streathamite]

Freddie Patel should be charged with obstruction.

at the very least, huge hurdles should be placed in the way of him EVER doing a cut-up where criminal charges are a possibility. There's not just this case; there's the camden sex nutter case, Richard chang etc. As it happens, the GMC are investigating

 

[ViolentPanda]

The director of public prosecutions has changed his mind!! A summons has been granted to charge Harwood with manslaughter.

It's good that he'll be charged, and (hopefully) prosecuted, but I won't get my hopes up that he'll actually do time yet.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

I'm glad for Tomlinson's family that Harwood's being charged for manslaughter, but even if he is prosecuted and justice served, the spin from Plod will be that he's a wrong 'un, a bad apple etc, and they'll do everything to deflect attention from the fact that Harwood did what he did precisely because of the methods, approaches and culture of the Met.

I won't be holding my breath for any root and branch reform of police methods because of this.

 

[winjer]

"[IPCC chairman] Hardwick also hinted at the significance of the Guardian's footage when he revealed there were no CCTV cameras in the area where Tomlinson was assaulted." (10 April 2009, reported in The Guardian)

Which appears to have been accurate in terms of the actual assault, no?

 

[Corax]

Freddie Patel should be charged with obstruction.

Maybe I'm too soft, but Patel has always seemed more a weak bumbling dupe than a willing accomplice to me.

Should certainly be struck off and relegated to St John's work though.

 

[likesfish]

violent twat gives some drunk a slap who then goes and dies.
police try to cover up the indefensible.
bloke was not a threat and hit from behind for no good reason.

 

[harpo]

Maybe I'm too soft, but Patel has always seemed more a weak bumbling dupe than a willing accomplice to me.

Should certainly be struck off and relegated to St John's work though.

Maybe, tho I don't agree. But if so it begs the question as to why a bumbling fool with a track record of (at best) incompetence remained on the list of Home Office approved patholigists.

 

[Corax]

Maybe, tho I don't agree. But if so it begs the question as to why a bumbling fool with a track record of (at best) incompetence remained on the list of Home Office approved patholigists.

Because he could be easily manipulated is my guess.

 

[harpo]

Because he could be easily manipulated is my guess.

System rotten to the core then. But I feel sure Patel knowingly gave convenient verdicts. The decision to prosecute Harwood is good news but other heads should also be rolling.