Former job centre in Josephine Avenue in Brixton is squatted

[cuppa tee]

cuppa: Do you know why the housing association proposals failed?

don't know the details but I remember the evictions, I wasn't a resident but knew a couple. I can't understand the way the site has just been left, the army of "filth" and bailiffs gave the impression the evictions were all very urgent.

 

[Gramsci]

Good luck to them as long as we don't base any of our housing policy around their "needs".

The last governments agreed to a policy of open borders with the rest of the EU. Slovakians and Italians have a right to live and work here without visas. They also have rights here as members of the EU.

So "our" ( who is "our"?) housing policies in the broadest sense (public and private) should take into account a EU wide labour force and free movement of people within the EU.

Who is "we"? You do not speak for me.

My view is that the last government encouraged people to come here from the rest of Europe as it provides a flexible and cheap labour force. They said it was good for the economy. In which case they should have built more Council housing whilst they were in power and put in rent controls on private rental property (which from your link Italy still does).

 

[crustychick]

7 years + since the St Agnes Place evictions ........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Agnes_Place .......... The vast bulk of the site remains fenced off and unused..........

Wow, that is really sad, i hadn't realised since I'm not in London any more. Bastards.

 

[paolo]

That's criminal

 

[Brixton Hatter]

7 years + since the St Agnes Place evictions ........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Agnes_Place .......... The vast bulk of the site remains fenced off and unused..........

Yeah I remember the evictions - just before Christmas when it was fucking freezing cold. Some of my friends lived there. There has been no development on that site apart from a small block of flats which replaced the old rasta squat - which was raided and evicted after "firearms and drugs" were found (actually, no guns were found, only a cartridge casing iirc, and a small bag of weed). They were perfectly good three-storey terraced houses - some admittedly in better condition than others. A few people I knew who were living there were rehoused in other local authority places around Brixton - which was good, but obviously denied other people on the housing list somewhere to live.

There have been various plans to redevelop the site, straighten the road and move the Charlie Chaplin adventure playground (which is next door) but nothing seems to have happened. There was a public meeting about it about three years ago now. A huge block has been built just behind this site on Camberwell New Road, but St Agnes Places lies empty, and rogue builders use it now to illegally dump building rubbish. When I get a moment I'll try to find out what Lambeth's plans are.....my assumption is Lambeth and/or developers are sitting on the site waiting for property prices to rise a bit more It's a prime site - perfect for 'luxury apartments with stunning views across Kennington Park'...

 

[cuppa tee]

...........my assumption is Lambeth and/or developers are sitting on the site waiting for property prices to rise a bit more It's a prime site - perfect for 'luxury apartments with stunning views across Kennington Park'...

that would be my assumption too, there are plenty of anecdotal accounts of deception and skulduggery by the ptb in this matter, maybe they are hoping people will forget before cashing in their chips.

 

[leanderman]

It's outrageous how many sites and buildings lie idle. Compulsory purchase!

 

[passivejoe]

I don't understand the anger here at anti-squatting laws.
I do understand that some people have no other option and they're better with a roof than on the street. However we need laws in place to defend people's homes from being squatted.

As an example, my sister owns, with a mortgage, a 2 bedroom house in Camberwell. Her husband's job was relocated to Manchester for a 2 year contract. Knowing that after the 2 years was up, she'd be moving back down again, they opted to rent out their house in Camberwell to and use the rental income to lease a flat in Manchester for themselves.
Their tenants signed a 2 year contract with a 12 month break clause. After the 12th month, they stopped paying the rent and changed the locks. With the law on their side, my sister was unable to remove them until their tenancy agreement had expired... the tenants turned squatters then had 12 months livingfor free in the property while my sister struggled to make ends meet as she still had to pay to rent the flat in Manchester and pay off the mortgage on their home.
When the squatters were finally removed, they'd trashed the house.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

The last governments agreed to a policy of open borders with the rest of the EU. Slovakians and Italians have a right to live and work here without visas. They also have rights here as members of the EU.

So "our" ( who is "our"?) housing policies in the broadest sense (public and private) should take into account a EU wide labour force and free movement of people within the EU.

Who is "we"? You do not speak for me.

My view is that the last government encouraged people to come here from the rest of Europe as it provides a flexible and cheap labour force. They said it was good for the economy. In which case they should have built more Council housing whilst they were in power and put in rent controls on private rental property (which from your link Italy still does).

TBF UK housing policy doesn't seem designed to meet anybody's needs, so why should the Italians be any different?

 

[Gramsci]

I don't understand the anger here at anti-squatting laws.
I do understand that some people have no other option and they're better with a roof than on the street. However we need laws in place to defend people's homes from being squatted.

As an example, my sister owns, with a mortgage, a 2 bedroom house in Camberwell. Her husband's job was relocated to Manchester for a 2 year contract. Knowing that after the 2 years was up, she'd be moving back down again, they opted to rent out their house in Camberwell to and use the rental income to lease a flat in Manchester for themselves.
Their tenants signed a 2 year contract with a 12 month break clause. After the 12th month, they stopped paying the rent and changed the locks. With the law on their side, my sister was unable to remove them until their tenancy agreement had expired... the tenants turned squatters then had 12 months livingfor free in the property while my sister struggled to make ends meet as she still had to pay to rent the flat in Manchester and pay off the mortgage on their home.
When the squatters were finally removed, they'd trashed the house.

For your information this case would not have been covered by the new squatting laws.

This is a case of someone not paying rent not a case of squatting.

You even say that your sister was able to remove them once there tenancy agreement had expired.

 

[Gramsci]

TBF UK housing policy doesn't seem designed to meet anybody's needs, so why should the Italians be any different?

Not the point I was making in reply to Ol Nick.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't understand the anger here at anti-squatting laws.
I do understand that some people have no other option and they're better with a roof than on the street. However we need laws in place to defend people's homes from being squatted.

As an example, my sister owns, with a mortgage, a 2 bedroom house in Camberwell. Her husband's job was relocated to Manchester for a 2 year contract. Knowing that after the 2 years was up, she'd be moving back down again, they opted to rent out their house in Camberwell to and use the rental income to lease a flat in Manchester for themselves.
Their tenants signed a 2 year contract with a 12 month break clause. After the 12th month, they stopped paying the rent and changed the locks. With the law on their side, my sister was unable to remove them until their tenancy agreement had expired... the tenants turned squatters then had 12 months livingfor free in the property while my sister struggled to make ends meet as she still had to pay to rent the flat in Manchester and pay off the mortgage on their home.
When the squatters were finally removed, they'd trashed the house.

There were already laws to protect peoples homes.

Also the new law made squatting itself an offence. So even if one agreed to leave a property when asked u could still be done under the new law.

The new law was opposed by The Criminal Bar Association and the Law Society

The Criminal Bar Association and the Law Society strongly opposed the creation of a new criminal offence, arguing that the current law was effective and that unnecessary new regulation should be avoided. However, the Property Litigation Association took the opposite view.
The Law Society argued that squatting was a rare problem and introducing new offences when there was already a range of existing offences would be disproportionate and counterproductive. It also queried whether the police would have the resources to enforce new offences when they appeared to be unwilling to enforce existing laws.
A Law Society spokesperson said: ‘Residential occupiers are already adequately protected from trespass under the Criminal Law Act 1977, and for that reason we, along with the Metropolitan Police, the Magistrates’ Association and many others, did not see the need for the introduction of a new criminal offence for squatting.’

 

[Onket]

Yeah I remember the evictions - just before Christmas when it was fucking freezing cold. Some of my friends lived there. There has been no development on that site apart from a small block of flats which replaced the old rasta squat - which was raided and evicted after "firearms and drugs" were found (actually, no guns were found, only a cartridge casing iirc, and a small bag of weed). They were perfectly good three-storey terraced houses - some admittedly in better condition than others. A few people I knew who were living there were rehoused in other local authority places around Brixton - which was good, but obviously denied other people on the housing list somewhere to live.

There have been various plans to redevelop the site, straighten the road and move the Charlie Chaplin adventure playground (which is next door) but nothing seems to have happened. There was a public meeting about it about three years ago now. A huge block has been built just behind this site on Camberwell New Road, but St Agnes Places lies empty, and rogue builders use it now to illegally dump building rubbish. When I get a moment I'll try to find out what Lambeth's plans are.....my assumption is Lambeth and/or developers are sitting on the site waiting for property prices to rise a bit more It's a prime site - perfect for 'luxury apartments with stunning views across Kennington Park'...

I went to that meeting. There were people there representing the site on Camberwell New Road. They lied that the trees they were removing were dead, so I fully expect that whole development was based on bullshit.

I moved away from St Agnes Place in 2010 (I wasn't in the squatted houses)- it was sad to see the fenced off areas of rubble year after year. The road was slowly sinking too, probably somethign to do with the cellars/foundations.

 

[Blagsta]

I don't understand the anger here at anti-squatting laws.
I do understand that some people have no other option and they're better with a roof than on the street. However we need laws in place to defend people's homes from being squatted.

As an example, my sister owns, with a mortgage, a 2 bedroom house in Camberwell. Her husband's job was relocated to Manchester for a 2 year contract. Knowing that after the 2 years was up, she'd be moving back down again, they opted to rent out their house in Camberwell to and use the rental income to lease a flat in Manchester for themselves.
Their tenants signed a 2 year contract with a 12 month break clause. After the 12th month, they stopped paying the rent and changed the locks. With the law on their side, my sister was unable to remove them until their tenancy agreement had expired... the tenants turned squatters then had 12 months livingfor free in the property while my sister struggled to make ends meet as she still had to pay to rent the flat in Manchester and pay off the mortgage on their home.
When the squatters were finally removed, they'd trashed the house.

Either you just made this up or your sister had very bad legal advice.

 

[leanderman]

Either you just made this up or your sister had very bad legal advice.

This happened to friends of mine in Berwyn Road, Tulse Hill.

It took them 12 months to get back in.

They may not have lost out too much financially because the rent - for at least some of the time - was being paid through housing benefit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't understand the anger here at anti-squatting laws.
I do understand that some people have no other option and they're better with a roof than on the street. However we need laws in place to defend people's homes from being squatted.

As an example, my sister owns, with a mortgage, a 2 bedroom house in Camberwell. Her husband's job was relocated to Manchester for a 2 year contract. Knowing that after the 2 years was up, she'd be moving back down again, they opted to rent out their house in Camberwell to and use the rental income to lease a flat in Manchester for themselves.
Their tenants signed a 2 year contract with a 12 month break clause. After the 12th month, they stopped paying the rent and changed the locks. With the law on their side, my sister was unable to remove them until their tenancy agreement had expired... the tenants turned squatters then had 12 months livingfor free in the property while my sister struggled to make ends meet as she still had to pay to rent the flat in Manchester and pay off the mortgage on their home.
When the squatters were finally removed, they'd trashed the house.

1) What your sister's tenants did was not squatting. Squatting is entering an empty/unused property in order to obtain shelter. What your sister's tenants did was falsely occupy.

2) Your sister is a mug and should kick whoever talked her into a 2 year contract with a 12 month break clause hard in their genitals. A standard Assured Shorthold Tenancy rolling over from an initial 6 month period would have allowed her to get the tenants out in 8 weeks max, 6 months if she'd given the maximum standard break period.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Either you just made this up or your sister had very bad legal advice.

Appalling advice all the way through, both from the POV of allowing a 24 month contract with a 12 month break (I've heard of this for large palatial-type homes in Hampstead etc, but Camberwell?), and for it taking so long to kick 'em out.

 

[Blagsta]

This happened to friends of mine in Berwyn Road, Tulse Hill.

It took them 12 months to get back in.

They may not have lost out too much financially because the rent - for at least some of the time - was being paid through housing benefit.

Its a breach of contract. Go to court, get 'em out. How fucking hard is that?

 

[leanderman]

Its a breach of contract. Go to court, get 'em out. How fucking hard is that?

That it was they did. No idea why it took so long. Probably useless lawyers.

 

[Gramsci]

1) What your sister's tenants did was not squatting. Squatting is entering an empty/unused property in order to obtain shelter. What your sister's tenants did was falsely occupy.

2) Your sister is a mug and should kick whoever talked her into a 2 year contract with a 12 month break clause hard in their genitals. A standard Assured Shorthold Tenancy rolling over from an initial 6 month period would have allowed her to get the tenants out in 8 weeks max, 6 months if she'd given the maximum standard break period.

You are correct. But what passivejoes post shows (and I am not having a go at him personally) is that the way that a lot of things get put under the label of the "squatters".

Both the Evening Standard and the Daily Mail ran hate campaign against squatters. They usually managed to get race and immigration into it as well. Usually Roma as in this convoluted piece from the Hate Mail.

Its not possible to have a go at Black people anymore but Roma are fair game apparently.

 

[passivejoe]

Appalling advice all the way through, both from the POV of allowing a 24 month contract with a 12 month break (I've heard of this for large palatial-type homes in Hampstead etc, but Camberwell?), and for it taking so long to kick 'em out.

It would seem so. Not made up though.
My mistake... my misunderstanding was that if you're in a house that you're not paying rent for and you didnt force access, you're squatting. That's clearly wrong.

 

[zenie]

There is a load of development on the St Agnes site now. The block of flats that used to butt up against the houses stands empty and I think is being demolished. The flats on camberwell new road are depressingly overwhelming and tower over you. ((( lost green spaces )))

 

[ringo]

The block of flats that used to butt up against the houses stands empty and I think is being demolished.

Cycled past this morning and the two big 360 diggers had just demolished that block of flats too. From the look of the surveyors marks they're about to build over the whole side of the road backing onto the eastern section of Kennington Park by Brandon Estate. Haven't noticed anything new on the west side by the football pitches.

 

[Crispy]

It's a huge project. Planning Application here: http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=LGAOVVBO0GL00

They're relocating the playgrounds to the North, to better integrate with the park. They're straightening out the kink in the road.

Existing:



Proposed:



View looking South-West:


"47% Affordable" - the flat roofed buildings in the center of the block are for HA and Shared Ownership. The 3 and 4 bed terraced houses are for the private market.

 

[cuppa tee]

Cycled past this morning and the two big 360 diggers had just demolished that block of flats too. From the look of the surveyors marks they're about to build over the whole side of the road backing onto the eastern section of Kennington Park by Brandon Estate. Haven't noticed anything new on the west side by the football pitches.

they are realigning the road, the old St Agnes Place will be completely erased and the new road will cut across the park ending up by Bolton Crescent, no doubt the big chunk of ground created between the new road and the park will be more attractive as a development than two strips in the footprint of the old St Agnes.

 

[ringo]

Blimey, cheers for the info.

 

[Crispy]

It's actually a pretty damned good bit of urban planning

 

[Brixton Hatter]

looks like the two bits of Kennington park are finally joined up again

 

[Crispy]

Well, you have to cross the road, but yes.

 

[leanderman]

Squatters have just moved in again, a year or so after the previous eviction. Council and owner have failed, disgracefully, to put the site to use. Neighbours had objected to student accommodation.

So, mirabile dictu, I approve of the latest development.