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Football Lads Against Fascism

hitmouse said:
They were formally linked, they had a split a while back but buggered if I can remember what it was about. From a quick google, looks like Gable kept Searchlight and Lowles got HNH? Still not totally clear on what the actual point of disagreement is though.
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It was about money wasn't it? Lowles wanted to be paid more and ended up running off with the HmH donors and contacts lists. Larry O'Hara will know.
 
The39thStep said:
It was about money wasn't it? Lowles wanted to be paid more and ended up running off with the HmH donors and contacts lists. Larry O'Hara will know.
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Yeah, looks like NFB is the only place to have covered it in much detail, managed to dig this up:

NO HOPE, LOTS OF HATE: CIVIL WAR BREAKS OUT IN THE SEARCHLIGHT GANG – Notes From The Borderland

borderland.co.uk borderland.co.uk

EXCLUSIVE: INTRODUCTION & TIME-LINE TO HOPE NOT HATE VERSUS SEARCHLIGHT CIVIL WAR ARTICLE NFB 10 – Notes From The Borderland

borderland.co.uk borderland.co.uk
 
There may also be the relationship that Searchlight had with leftist anti fascist groups form late eighties through the nineties.
For instance ANL2, where the likes of P.S and Julie Waterson took intelligence and advice, many times to their detriment during this period. When UAF was established, amalgamating with NAAR and similar groups, the relationship between UAF and Searchlight may have diminished and Nick Lowles may have actively and oppotunistically picked up on this for H'n'H.

Hope Not Hate has been actively and openly involved with Anti Fascist stuff in the last major period 5-10 yrs ago, while Searchlight has not so much, possibly concentrating on non domestic 'extremist' and fash groups and intelligence.

YRE actively worked with Searchlight right up in to 21st Century, significantly around intelligence gathering on Fash.
However there may be differences to approaches as Millies and SP were also involved with No Platform and other 'militant' anti fascist and anti racist groups.
Hope Not Hate may be more 'user friendly' and have less of a stigma than Searchlight and feed less bullshight to anti fascist andanti racist campaigners with regards, for example intelligence for activities and counter demonstrations.
 
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Nigel said:
There may also be the relationship that Searchlight had with leftist anti fascist groups form late eighties through the nineties.
For instance ANL2, where the likes of P.S and Julie Waterson took intelligence and advice, many times to their detriment during this period. When UAF was established, amalgamating with NAAR and similar groups, the relationship between UAF and Searchlight may have diminished and Nick Lowles may have actively and oppotunistically picked up on this for H'n'H.

Hope Not Hate has been actively and openly involved with Anti Fascist stuff in the last major period 5-10 yrs ago, while Searchlight has not so much, possibly concentrating on non domestic 'extremist' and fash groups and intelligence.

YRE actively worked with Searchlight right up in to 21st Century, significantly around intelligence gathering on Fash.
However there may be differences to approaches as Millies and SP were also involved with No Platform and other 'militant' anti fascist and anti racist groups.
Hope Not Hate may be more 'user friendly' and have less of a stigma than Searchlight and feed less bullshight to anti fascist andanti racist campaigners with regards, for example intelligence for activities and counter demonstrations.
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HNH more user friendly? You are hallucinating if you believe that
 
Larry O'Hara said:
HNH more user friendly? You are hallucinating if you believe that
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No I don't believe that.
What I'm saying is that they have used opportunities to give that sort of impression.
Significantly with a generational gap and transition of orgs through time many anti fascists would not even know the history of Searchlight and if they did look it up, may see the N. Lowles 'split' as H'n'H attempting to get rid of excess baggage.

As far as I am aware AFN did not have a position on Searchlight/ H'n' H (I hope I'm wrong on this) and where mobilisations, such as those in Liverpool, H'n'H were openly mixing and involved on both 'independent' and UAF/SUTR sides.

There were rumours that H'n'H had some involvement with LAFA, e,g, around hostility towards I an Don van and at the G erry D owling and their supporters in and around Communist Fight (LCFI),
 
Nigel said:
There were rumours that H'n'H had some involvement with LAFA, e,g, around hostility towards I an Don van and at the G erry D owling and their supporters in and around Communist Fight (LCFI),
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I'm not sure that anyone needs HNH telling them to be hostile to the "victory to ISIS" fella?
 
hitmouse said:
I'm not sure that anyone needs HNH telling them to be hostile to the "victory to ISIS" fella?
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That's not just the two Socialist Fight groups though is it!
IBT, BT, Sparts and various other groups/sects in and around break off from Sparts and Healyite WRP give at least, 'Military Support' to ISIS and other Clerical Islamicist groups, paramilitaries, warlords etc.
 
hitmouse said:
I can't imagine many people give those groups the time of day either though?
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I don't think you get my point and why H'n'H chose to target Socialist Fight around that time; i.e. concerning Momentum, Chris Williams. Gilad Atzmon playing Sax in band for benefit gig, witch hunting of Corbynistas in Labour Party.
(Whatever your or others position on this may be.)

I was thinking about this with regards, for example LAFA.
Without 'spilling the beans' around issues concerning it, their dissipation and presumable break-up on a public forum.
 
Nigel said:
I don't think you get my point and why H'n'H chose to target Socialist Fight around that time; i.e. concerning Momentum, Chris Williams. Gilad Atzmon playing Sax in band for benefit gig, witch hunting of Corbynistas in Labour Party.
(Whatever your or others position on this may be.)

I was thinking about this with regards, for example LAFA.
Without 'spilling the beans' around issues concerning it, their dissipation and presumable break-up on a public forum.
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Nigel, do the WPB do any anti fascist work ?
 
Nigel said:
I don't think you get my point and why H'n'H chose to target Socialist Fight around that time; i.e. concerning Momentum, Chris Williams. Gilad Atzmon playing Sax in band for benefit gig, witch hunting of Corbynistas in Labour Party.
(Whatever your or others position on this may be.)

I was thinking about this with regards, for example LAFA.
Without 'spilling the beans' around issues concerning it, their dissipation and presumable break-up on a public forum.
Click to expand...
Unless I've missed something, I'm not aware of anything that LAFA did to target Socialist Fight during that time, or any particular public expressions of hostility from them towards SF, so I'm not sure how fruitful a line of enquiry this is?
 
hitmouse said:
Unless I've missed something, I'm not aware of anything that LAFA did to target Socialist Fight during that time, or any particular public expressions of hostility from them towards SF, so I'm not sure how fruitful a line of enquiry this is?
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According to I an, T uran and others in C onsistant D emocrats/ Socialist Fight they met hostility at LAFA meetings by pro Zionists and possibly H'n'H!
I wasn't there so I can't say for certain, however the in person discussions I had with them, which were directly concerning struggles around 'migration control' anti racist/fascist campaigning gave me the impression they weren't lying.
 
Fozzie Bear said:
This just out:

Facebook original

FLAF STATEMENT - MAY 24th, 2024
———————————————————
Tommy’s Honeypot - June 1 - Don’t Fall For It

Diverted Traffic - This Way Please!

The pro-Zionist wing of antifascism is coming out of its hibernation since last October & is reorganising for the post-Gaza era. The fanatically pro-Israel, Starmerite, anti-Corbyn witchhunters, HOPE NOT HATE, intend to use the next period to direct activists away from world events & protesting Israeli atrocities to chasing far-right shadows nominated by them as ‘the greater evil’.

Paralleling this is the re-emergence of the Islamophobe & far-right Zionist hireling Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (aka Tommy Robinson) who provides a convenient target by which liberal Zionists can salve their consciences. They’re already on the same side, supporting apartheid, but at least they can claim not to be quite as extreme as Tommy.

This is the context in which the proposed anti-Robinson demo on 1st June should be seen. It’s a counterproductive move by the left, at this important time for Palestinian solidarity.
We would appeal to the organisers of the counter-demonstration to review their decision. We must not allow Zionism & Tommy Robinson to set the political agenda and divert attention from the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Let June 1st be a conflict between Liberal Zionism and Fascist Zionism; between Labour Friends of Israel and EDL Friends of Israel. Liberal or fascist, they support the state of Israel unconditionally and are prepared to turn a blind eye to apartheid & genocide. One facilitates the other.

We know that Robinson’s drunken followers do not have the attention span to sit through his long boring film & speeches. They will turn on the police, as always happens when Tommy brings them to the capital.

Leave them to it.

We are appealing to antifascists, to the Palestinian Solidarity Movement, to the Muslim Community & to Jewish Anti-Zionists to avoid what we believe to be a state set-up for violent confrontation in Central London on June 1st. This is a recipe for disaster, which will be used by the government to further criminalise protests & demonstrations, particularly pro-Palestine marches.










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this is probably well known to people on this thread but i hadn't heard this before about EDL being a backformation of the JDL - presuming this is true:

"Today's fash rally in London is significant because it's the first open and public display of a fusion between zionists, islamophobes and fascist football crews that's been brewing for several years now. short historical thread >>
  • the EDL emerged out of the blue in 2009 and rapidly filled the space for organising far right street demos that had been vacated by the BNP (then focused on electoral respectability).
  • it later transpired (credit @tashLDN) that the EDL had been set up and lavishly funded by a City financier called Alan Lake, who was an obsessive "counterjihadist" in the Breivik mould and consequently rabidly pro-Israel.
* this was one reason the EDL was called the EDL – it was a backformation from the Kahanist Jewish Defense League (JDL), also Tommy Robinson right from the get go stressed his pro Israel stance (which was unusual in fash circles at the time).

en.wikipedia.org

Meir Kahane - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

* at one point various Kahanists in Britain started turning up on EDL demos calling themselves, of course, the JDL. The (Jewish Community Security Trust ) put out a statement saying that the EDL were riddled with fascists and Jews should not go near them.

  • anyway back then the mainstream zionist organisations put some effort into distancing themselves from what was obviously a project to build a violent racist street movement directed at terrorising Muslims.
  • as for today? well you can see what it's like today. /fin

coda to this: post election we will see the mother of all factional wars break out in the Tory party and the Braverman/Jenrick tendency is already completely in cahoots with this lot.
the rally's "two tier policing" theme was lifted from Braverman's mad Times article, which in turn was lifted from the dozens of fash WhatsApp groups Braverman gets her lines from.
 
ska invita said:
this is probably well known to people on this thread but i hadn't heard this before about EDL being a backformation of the JDL - presuming this is true:

"Today's fash rally in London is significant because it's the first open and public display of a fusion between zionists, islamophobes and fascist football crews that's been brewing for several years now. short historical thread >>
  • the EDL emerged out of the blue in 2009 and rapidly filled the space for organising far right street demos that had been vacated by the BNP (then focused on electoral respectability).
  • it later transpired (credit @tashLDN) that the EDL had been set up and lavishly funded by a City financier called Alan Lake, who was an obsessive "counterjihadist" in the Breivik mould and consequently rabidly pro-Israel.
* this was one reason the EDL was called the EDL – it was a backformation from the Kahanist Jewish Defense League (JDL), also Tommy Robinson right from the get go stressed his pro Israel stance (which was unusual in fash circles at the time).
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I've never seen that claim before, would be interested to see if there's any actual citation for it?
 
Mr.Bishie said:
Is Tomeh behind this?

View attachment 427992
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The European Defence League (EDL) is a largely UK-based offshoot of the English Defence League founded by Tommy Robinson which campaigns against what it considers sharia law and itself has various offshoots.[1] The group was set up in October 2010 and held its first demonstration that month in Amsterdam, Netherlands, at the trial of Dutch anti-Islam politician Geert Wilders.[2]

wiki

getting in on the far right election boom on the continent i presume
 
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It's still kind of funny to me how the only people who invoke the idea of "Europe" are either white supremacists who think we need to refight the Crusades or liberal remain ultras who think we need to refight the 2016 referendum. We didn't vote to get Brexit done just to have the European Defence League telling us what to do, etc.
 
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