22:14
Kofi Magots
These are two of the most cynical and manipulative cult leaders in the world.
They are NO better than the guys in the Bilderberg meeting.
I'm not the one inviting known, proven antisemites to speak at a party. They can sue for libel - they'd never win.
By the wa, I agree with protesting Bilderberg. I just think more appropriate keynote speakers could have been found.
22:17
Silkie Carlo
Well evidently we disagree on this. But I'm not into keyboard fighting. Please. I am so glad we agree on anti-semitism - I am the first to admit that not everyone who is in this movement shares our view. And I respect your impassioned defence. I just think, wholeheartedly, it is misplaced here. If you can suggest other speakers, please do, I am still booking.
22:36
Silkie Carlo
Please could you consider taking down your post on the events page? It just looks antagonistic. Perhaps you want to post something about anti-Bilderbergers needing to be vigilant to anti-semitism - I agree with that whole heartedly, I fight that battle very hard. But really, let's not antagonise each other or nurture paranoia where it's not due. Peace.
22:49
Kofi Magots
OK, I respect your respect yadda yadda. Still.
You have to understand, I've been seeing this thing grow for years and it's been scaring me since the first one of my hippy friends started telling me the holocaust probably didn't happen the way it happened.
Alarm bells rang, and they've never stopped.
You can't just dismiss my question about zionism and 'regular' nationalism / imperialism with a cheeky 'learn some history'
I know about history - I know about the history of Israel, probably better than you. I've been there, and to the Occupied territories too. I've had a gun pointed my way by an israeli settler. don't come on all 'you need to learn about zionism' - i know about zionism, OK?
I also know about nazis, and the stuff they talk about has never changed. when I first became involved in politics, holocaust daning was a popular pastime among fash I had the misfortune to know; holocaust denial followed by 'but even if it did happen that way, good!'
have you ever heard this? I have. it sickens me.
And of course there are jewish anti-zionists - all good people should be anti-zionists! but not more than anti-any-other-nationalism-and-imperialism-ists.
There is no 'extra' thing on zionism, that is not already nationalism or imperialism, except that it's jewish nationalism, and jewish imperialism.
at least have the honesty to admit it. it's not too late to turn it around. cancel those guys, book Tariq Ali, Tony Benn, or someone from Respect
http://www.respectparty.org/
some actual politics would be a good thing.
the RESPECT party
www.respectparty.org
22:51
Kofi Magots
You can delete my post if you like - nobody's stopping you - but I won't. It's posted now, and if you value free expression and debate, and seeking truth, then let it stay and have people make up their own minds.
I'l leave it up to you.
22:58
Silkie Carlo
I'm also anti-nationalist! I disagree with Jones on a lot! That is inevitable in politics. But zionism
is a different form of nationalism. By different, I am not saying worse or better.
I will look up Tariq and Tony Benn - both excellent suggestions. I actually already vetoed Galloway, btw... Guess why?
I would much rather you delete you post than me - I feel like a dick deleting stuff and I hate doing it - but I also hate it when big artists and speakers drop out because of the 'anti-semitic' smear which they believe isn't true, but fear will damage their PR. I understand that fear, because I hate any inference that I'm racist too (and it is so ridiculous based on my personal background..). That happened, shortly after your post, and I have been trying to clear up the clusterfuck all evening. I feel this discussion has been productive, and I'm glad we had it. Moreover, I'm glad we agree on a firm vigilance against anti-semitism. I cherish that. And I think it would be peaceful and in some small degree reparative if you were to post something about antisemitism/your views more broadly, rather than claims against individuals or smears on a peaceful family friendly festival on the whole. Peace.
23:07
Kofi Magots
I'm not saying you are racist, and anyone else who does needs to shut up. I'm on your side there.
It doesn't have to be Galloway (I agree, not him) but there are other people in Respect. Even someone from the SWP if you can find one engaging enough (they're there)
I'm a lefty, and I regret I won't be at the party because when there rich bastards meet it seems like anyone should be there to spoil the atmos. Good on you, I wish I could attend.
But these speakers. I was actually shocked when I saw their names.
Please tell me you booked them to draw a crowd, and not for their sociopolitical analysis. That, I can understand. Jones, I'd even go with - he's got that firebrand vibe to him that even though I disagree with 3/4 of what he says, he's good at motivating people.
Shame he's such a christian fundy knucklehead.
Icke, though. I really think you ought to reconsider. Leaving aside the blatant antisemitism in his books (deny it if you like, it's there whether you like it or not) and the fact that his site promotes some seriously dubious work by some seriously dubious 'academics', he is verging on being - if not actually already - a cult leader.
I think ou're making a mistake allowing him a platform with so many families, which means kids.
Your call, of course. But I have to speak. Someone has to.
Please also understand, I have nothing to gain from Icke or no Icke. I just hate to see good people taken in by con men, and he is one. Large as life.
But, it's just one person's view. Do the research. Join the dots (as Icke says).
I'm not a dick, I'm a nice, serious, intelligent, concerned person who (beieve it or not) is saying this stuff with the best of intentions, not just to put a message across. These guys are dangerous. That's all I'm saying.
Please get some real political speakers.
23:20
Silkie Carlo
I've read Icke's books for years; and bought the books he references; and so on. I see that he is a firm anti-zionist, and I actually don't fully agree with him on the extent of those views, but I don't think he hates the Jewish race. If I did, I wouldn't so much as talk to him. I think he is not vigilant enough though, against anti-semitism. I would berate him for that. That leads to claims and interpretations like yours. I also think our MSM and current government is not vigilant to racism - for example, stirring up Islamophobia with every chance.
I have also reached out to friends in the SWP, by the way. And I booked one of my old Cambridge lecturers (a Marxist) to talk on the tensions between democracy and capitalism.
I invited Icke and Jones because their research and exposure of Bilderburg has been some of the best. There is no denying that. The focus of the event is pro-transparency - but there is no tolerance or platform for racists.
Vigilance against anti-semitism is important in this political community. Delivery and certainty is also important. I wish you could direct your passion in the right place and with less of a confrontational approach, and not on my event page. I have to take the day off work tomorrow because your post convinced one of my headliners that they will suffer PR smears, and now I have to try my damndest to win them back. It's so devastating. I don't know what else to say at this point of personal despair, but yeh, I would just ask that we could publicly make peace on the events page and remove inflammatory accusations. I see that you are nice and concerned and I appreciate that a lot. Peace.
23:40
Kofi Magots
...because there is a war, for your mind. it's all about what people see, not what is true .. really?
so we can live in a dreamworld and avoid reality?
interesting take on things, given the speakers booked.
I think you'd just be happy for me to take down the post i made (having already had it deleted twice, once in my own thread and once in someone else's)
and then, we could pretend this never happened. but it did. it is happening. it's real. here is someone drawing a line in the dand and saying No. I won't accept that these charlatans are anything more than charlatans. dangerous ones. And I will stick by everything I've written here if it comes to it. I haven't said anything anyone would dare sue for.
Not that the guys inside the meeting are better - they aren't. But they aren't worse. Don't guilt trip me into lying, just so you can feel OK about booking well dodgy people to speak at your event.
I won't delete anything, or add anything. it's up to people to draw their own conclusions.
feel free to delete it yourself. i've got screenshots of everything anyway.
Peace, indeed. I often wonder how many people who say that a lot really mean it.
There is no War of Words; words are what we use to avoid war. No need to invoke peace, it exists just fine by itself till someone breaks it.
