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Extinction Rebellion

To be fair to XR this was just a start - the serious stuff comes where they try to, as promised, cause economic disruption and loss. This would probably mean attempts at shutting down parts of the City of London and/or, for example, fuel distribution centres. These types of actions will of course be treated far more seriously by authorities - probably coming under definition of domestic extremism if not a higher designation. In that light, these initial actions can be seen as a “lead in”, “blooding” a new wave of activists, so to speak, in a less threatening environment that the state does not take as seriously (after all what is the closure of even 5 bridges in London - on one day - in the grand scheme of things? )
The mettle of XR will be seen when, and if it can, actually cause effective disruption to Capital rather than symbolic disruption to The Capital.....

But their ethos, such as it is, is non-conforntational. If they do something that genuinely threatens capital they will come up against the forces of the state and at that point the whole 'be nice to coppers' thing becomes 'lie down and get beaten'.
 
But their ethos, such as it is, is non-conforntational. If they do something that genuinely threatens capital they will come up against the forces of the state and at that point the whole 'be nice to coppers' thing becomes 'lie down and get beaten'.
Well yes. If you push non-violence as a tactic far enough it does involve lying down and getting beaten sometimes. Are they pretending anything else? I don't think they're saying that NVDA will result in people having a nice time.
 
Well yes. If you push non-violence as a tactic far enough it does involve lying down and getting beaten sometimes. Are they pretending anything else? I don't think they're saying that NVDA will result in people having a nice time.
it should do though. i can't be the only person who recalls the rts picnic down by shepherds bush, nothing violent about that iirc
 
There is such a thing as not getting caught.

Now you have seventy people who are gonna spend the next six months or a year dealing with court cases and lawyers. All for an action that wasn't 'direct' at all. It was a publicity stunt.

I've done the get arrested on purpose model of eco activism. It's shit, but it has a purpose if you pick an actual target, and no 'getting yourself in the papers' is not a valid target.
I think the tactic is different from getting arrested for blocking a coal mine or something. It seems to me that they want to push until thousands of people are arrested, and the number keeps on rising. You might disagree with it as a tactic, but it's not the same as a few people getting arrested for a one-off action.
 
I think the tactic is different from getting arrested for blocking a coal mine or something. It seems to me that they want to push until thousands of people are arrested, and the number keeps on rising. You might disagree with it as a tactic, but it's not the same as a few people getting arrested for a one-off action.
it's sounding more like a strategy than a tactic. and tbh it's stupid either way round, are the police the enemy in this case, are they the people to confront? or are they an obstacle to get around?

i suppose if they're getting released without charge and all sue the cops there may be some small merit to the let's get lots of people nicked. but any compo will be years down the line.
 
I think the police are fairly irrelevant to what they are trying to do - except in so far as they can be used by letting them do their job. I'm not saying I think XR's current tactics are right, but I understand what they're trying to do. If you get arrests and police violence against peaceful protesters on a large enough scale it becomes qualitatively as well as quantitatively different from arrests on a smaller scale. Let's say their ambition is to get 10,000 people arrested. This will start to clog up courts, be a burden on the state. Media will start to do running tallies of the numbers of arrests. Let's say each person knows roughly a 100 people (friends, relatives, work colleagues etc). If 10,000 people get arrested then roughly a 1000,000 people will personally know someone who has been arrested (I know there will be overlaps in social groups, just doing rough numbers). If police start beating peaceful protests this can become another way of forcing people to pick a side (think miner's strike), particularly if they know someone involved. This all means that huge numbers of people will be talking about the protests, to the point that it is a social phenomenon on which people will be expected to have a stance, and on which governments and political parties will be expected to have a stance.

I'm not saying I think all this will work, just that it is not related to the tactic of getting arrested on individual protests, and I don't think they expect anything to come of any given arrest of encounter with the police. It's all about trying to make it happen on such a scale that it forces society-wide debate on e.g. whether climate change is urgent enough to justify such methods.
 
I'm delighted to see Non Violent education, what makes you think 'Violent' action would catalyze a larger struggle? What do you think it would achieve other than spending 4 hours being Kettled?

I know it's all been gone over 1000 times ++, and personally am washed up / wrung out / will be contributing bugger all in practical terms, but having only ever been involved in one truly successful mass political campaign in my lifetime, it just feels soooooooooooooo late in the day to be thinking seriously about any kind of nvda approach to climate change ( an infinitely more pressing / global issue than the one I'm referring to ) - if a slow burning / nvda ship ever was viable for CC, it sailed a long time ago .

 
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I think the police are fairly irrelevant to what they are trying to do - except in so far as they can be used by letting them do their job. I'm not saying I think XR's current tactics are right, but I understand what they're trying to do. If you get arrests and police violence against peaceful protesters on a large enough scale it becomes qualitatively as well as quantitatively different from arrests on a smaller scale.

Let's say their ambition is to get 10,000 people arrested. This will start to clog up courts, be a burden on the state. Media will start to do running tallies of the numbers of arrests. Let's say each person knows roughly a 100 people (friends, relatives, work colleagues etc). If 10,000 people get arrested then roughly a 1000,000 people will personally know someone who has been arrested (I know there will be overlaps in social groups, just doing rough numbers).

If police start beating peaceful protests this can become another way of forcing people to pick a side (think miner's strike), particularly if they know someone involved.

This all means that huge numbers of people will be talking about the protests, to the point that it is a social phenomenon on which people will be expected to have a stance, and on which governments and political parties will be expected to have a stance.

I'm not saying I think all this will work, just that it is not related to the tactic of getting arrested on individual protests, and I don't think they expect anything to come of any given arrest of encounter with the police. It's all about trying to make it happen on such a scale that it forces society-wide debate on e.g. whether climate change is urgent enough to justify such methods.
Great post here about how the police will play this



C&Ps for the facebook averse:

Hi everyone, my name is Kevin and I am the coordinator of the Network for Police Monitoring (Netpol), a coalition of organisations, researchers and lawyers challenging violent or excessive policing in the UK. Green and Black Cross is one of our core members.

I wanted to share a few thoughts on the likely police response to Extinction Rebellion based on almost 30 years monitoring the police and most specifically, working with the anti-fracking movement on this issue since 2014.

In Netpol’s experience, public order policing is driven entirely by intensive intelligence-gathering. Central to this is the creation and use of personal profiles to “provide a detailed picture of the (potential) offender”.

As a result, what we have seen from the anti-fracking movement and other campaigns is concerted police efforts to build personal and organisational profiles on the size, structures, leadership and alliances of campaign groups. At its most basic level, this means filming attendance at meetings and protests and routinely monitoring social media.

The "control strategy" used by the police also places a particular emphasis on "disruption" and "network demolition". For the last ten years, individual campaigners have repeatedly expressed to us their concerns about personal targeting or ‘picking out’ for having their photograph taken, facing identification checks by police during a stop and search and police officers publicly naming them (what one described as ‘aggressively saying hello’). We have had reports too of detention and searches under Schedule 7 anti-terrorism powers at ports or airports.

This “overt” activity constitutes far more of the surveillance conducted by the police – and should have a far greater priority for activists – than the inevitable concerns about undercover police spies (who in any event are incredibly difficult to identify).
Many might imagine that because this approach is borrowed from the policing of organised crime, its focus is on protest that is “violent”. That has not what we have seen.

Instead, the police have tended to target new social movements where they have little existing intelligence; groups who challenge powerful corporate interests; and those using direct action tactics.

This is why this matters to Extinction Rebellion.

Campaigners in other social movements have told us how obvious or conspicuous surveillance alienates people from others, including communities they are trying to connect or engage with, by creating the impression they are criminal or ‘trouble’. They have also said they believe surveillance is intentionally divisive, calling attention to those who are allegedly ‘extremists’ or whom the police want to isolate or alienate from other protesters.

If anyone experiences any of the following, please contact me in confidence at kevin@netpol.org:
  • the singling-out 'organisers' for particular attention
  • visits to individual campaigners at home
  • concerns raised or referrals made in schools or colleges for “vulnerability to extremism”
  • concerns raised about parents taking their children on protests
Finally, a heartfelt plea:
The apparently friendly police officers in blue bibs are intelligence gatherers. This isn’t speculation, it has been repeatedly confirmed, including in evidence to Parliament.

You may think chatting to them doesn’t reveal anything but they are not primarily interested in you – and they certainly aren’t interested in your views on climate change.

What they are interested in is the scraps of information that, when combined and analysed, help to build their profiles on the movement you have joined.
Please, please, please… for no other reason than respecting the safety of your comrades, please do not engage with them.
Kev x
 
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I'm sure the police will also re-introduce kettling, which as been very successful at sucking the energy out of street protest. A fair number of the protesters I saw are too young to even have been involved in the student protests so probably don't know yet what it means to be kettled. What will be interesting then is whether they can adjust their tactics to get around the police.

Was talking to a guy on the XR comms team yesterday. He was from outside London and thought that the police wouldn't put too many numbers on the streets for fear of putting off shoppers and tourists. I had to gently disabuse him of this notion. When the police and/or their political masters have had enough, they will get the numbers out.
 
I don't know if this has been posted. 5 Reasons I’m Not Joining the ‘Extinction Rebellion’ | Novara Media

I think it raises valid critiques that anyone involved in extinction rebellion needs to consider. However, I think it would be more productive to say that it's how extinction rebellion needs to evolve rather than see them as reasons not to take action

In terms of climate activism and NVDA previous eco activism eg climate camp actions have involved some police violence and also potentially harsh treatment in court as well as invasive police infiltration - extinction rebellion originators will be aware of this
 
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Maximum impact would be to block the bridges and roads the next time there is a tube and rail strike.
Then the violence will ramp up as people cannot get to work!
Has this been posted above? I have just scan read the thread.
 
Maximum impact would be to block the bridges and roads the next time there is a tube and rail strike.
Then the violence will ramp up as people cannot get to work!
Has this been posted above? I have just scan read the thread.
maximum impact would be to disrupt the operation of parliament, perhaps by besieging the palace of westminster
to disrupt the smooth running of businesses in london, perhaps by causing the evacuation of shops (fire alarms in mind rather than bomb threats, invasions of shops and businesses)
to disrupt the stock exchange and the city of london
bridges? small beer
 
I believe it’s that by getting arrested and blocking the courts with futile cases that the group hope will change the government’s focus on this.
Similar to how the hundreds of miners arrested at Orgreave and filled Rotherham police stations changed Thatcher’s focus.
 
I mentioned bridges and roads as that seems their current tactic.
It used to be disruptive behaviour outside banks but everyone is online these days. Using electricity damn them!
 
Rather than bridges, a much easier way to achieve mass arrest extremely quickly would be to significantly disrupt the city as has been said. Bet they wouldn’t last an hour.

I’m pretty impressed. They’re clearly ready to put their money where their mouth is with getting arrested. And worldwide policy change is the only thing that will work, not using plastic straws just seems so utterly futile. Don’t think I’d dare do what they’re doing wrt getting arrested (might lose my job and who would look after the kids with me being a single mum) but well, bloody hell, good for them basically!

ETA: Just watched a 13 min video on Facebook about them
 
I wish the EA all the best and look forward (unfortunately) to them getting the right approach after the police batter them.

NVDA is a cul de sac.
Well yeah. You can’t seriously expect people to sit there whilst having their heads caved in. Although I guess that’s self defence rather than violent direct action.
 
Do we get involved? They won't like some of our tactics!

Wouldn't recommend it. They seem like the sort who would sell you out in a heartbeat if you transgressed their idea of non-violent, non-confrontational, yes sir no sir three bags full sir activism. I mean the world may be ending but that's no excuse to go around behaving like ruffians now is it?
 
Well yeah. You can’t seriously expect people to sit there whilst having their heads caved in. Although I guess that’s self defence rather than violent direct action.

You can easily get yourself done for assaulting police just for defending yourself and others. You can even get done for assaulting coppers when you weren't even there at the time.

Mate of mine is in a Berlin prison at the moment awaiting trial for firebombing police, even though he was passed out drunk at the time. Somehow three coppers saw him do it, but they didn't realise they'd seen him do it until many months after the fact, long after he'd been released without charge and been allowed to return to the UK.
 
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