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Extinction Rebellion

Magnus McGinty said:
Obviously the environment killing us all is (not) in the interests of the working class but it’s not as if it’s tied to any other demands.
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Restructuring the entire economy and society along non/minimal carbon emitting (and arguably almost inevitably then non-capitalist) lines? I mean I know it's more complex than that in terms of what they're saying/meaning, but it's not a totally terrible starting point for a radical position is it?

I mean I hate bongos and hippies as much as the next person, but is it that much more limiting than arguing for better pay in a workplace, or shorter hours, demands which we also hope can be transcended in struggle?
 
Rob Ray said:
Well, I'm an infrastucture man so I tend to work on the basis that when it's not a laugh is exactly where a stolid brand of helpfulness is most important, because we've got endless opportunities to paint murals but very few walls to call our own.

It's also always worth bearing in mind that in any vaguely fractious volunteer collective about 80% of the honourable comrades will usually move on within three years. Often less. And in the worst case scenarios if no-one's fighting the radical corner it'll be the most obnoxious chancers who end up with a free building.
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https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ugY_gLgpSra5x2M-aHvoF8ALAldNj06z0kmutrKwTphoE
 
redcogs said:
i can agree with this. But can any of us wait around until an ideologically acceptable and politically pure movement springs up? According to Roger Naive we've a decade or so before famine grips the globe and social collapse begins to bite.
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There seems to be a small clique of people pushing this social collapse in ten years line including Jem Bendell, Hallam and David Wallace-Wells. It is not supported by the science and some of Hallam's wilder claims have recently faced heavy criticism from climate scientists. If this line keeps being pursued then it risks associating climate science with crankery in the eyes of the public. The situation is dire but the notion that everywhere wil be like Mad Max in a decade is just daft, if we do see changes in our lifetime it is far more likely to be social intensification and the exact type of authoritan government I suspect Hallam favours as capital and the state assert and protect themselves rather than gangs of outlaws street fighting over tins of tuna. I think they've watched too many zombie apocalypse films.
 
Fact is climate change offers a huge opportunity to seriously challenge if not overthrow capitalism, and XR or no XR, I think it's strategic to focus full energy on it.
And that's not being opportunistic, that's just desperate preservationism.
The status quo is now utterly indefensible in the face of this and thats a massive wedge that can / has to be driven into the heart of the system.
While XR is the biggest active force, I think it's worth piling in behind...I don't feel any obligation to get nicked though. And to Rogers credit his zero tolerance to reformism is welcome.
 
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smokedout said:
There seems to be a small clique of people pushing this social collapse in ten years line including Jem Bendell, Hallam and David Wallace-Wells. It is not supported by the science and some of Hallam's wilder claims have recently faced heavy criticism from climate scientists. If this line keeps being pursued then it risks associating climate science with crankery in the eyes of the public. The situation is dire but the notion that everywhere wil be like Mad Max in a decade is just daft, if we do see changes in our lifetime it is far more likely to be social intensification and the exact type of authoritan government I suspect Hallam favours as capital and the state assert and protect themselves rather than gangs of outlaws street fighting over tins of tuna. I think they've watched too many zombie apocalypse films.
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Even in that the third opinion offered doesn't rule out Hallam's doomsday predictions.
 
LynnDoyleCooper said:
Restructuring the entire economy and society along non/minimal carbon emitting (and arguably almost inevitably then non-capitalist) lines? I mean I know it's more complex than that in terms of what they're saying/meaning, but it's not a totally terrible starting point for a radical position is it?

I mean I hate bongos and hippies as much as the next person, but is it that much more limiting than arguing for better pay in a workplace, or shorter hours, demands which we also hope can be transcended in struggle?
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Fair enough, yeah I can see how it pretty much has to become anti-capitalist given capitalism isn’t compatible with sustainability.
 
ska invita said:
And to Rogers credit his zero tolerance to reformism is welcome.
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What zero tolerance to reformism? XR's demands are
1. Government must tell the truth by declaring a climate and ecological emergency, working with other institutions to communicate the urgency for change
2. Government must act now to halt biodiversity loss and reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025
3. Government must create and be led by the decisions of a Citizens’ Assembly on climate and ecological justice.
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Whatever ones thinks of those demands they are explicitly reformist
 
Roger does( inexplicably )appear to have created some left opponents. But whether we like it or not, ER is a burgeoning movement, and it seems to have great potential. Its natural enough that criticisms will emerge in the ferment, but don't we all have an obligation to mainly offer encouragement and support, rather than jerimiah's cynicism and distrust?
 
redcogs said:
Roger does( inexplicably )appear to have created some left opponents. But whether we like it or not, ER is a burgeoning movement, and it seems to have great potential. Its natural enough that criticisms will emerge in the ferment, but don't we all have an obligation to mainly offer encouragement and support, rather than jerimiah's cynicism and distrust?
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No.
 
Plenty examples of social movements that had a degree of success despite being internally riven by dissent, Chartism for instance?
 
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