Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Apologies I see what you mean.
Its not the impression Hallam gives when he mentions the report in his YouTube talks.
Extinction Rebellion
- Thread starter Jeremiah18.17
- Start date
Apologies I see what you mean.
Its not the impression Hallam gives when he mentions the report in his YouTube talks.
Interesting that the report also talks of non violent protests being more likely to topple a regime when met with a violent response. It may be that the goading of the state around Heathrow etc is Hallam's way of attempting to provoke this. Of course XR activists don't need to know that detail.
Yep, Daughter is off to some Climate thing which has a very specific protest (Drax) rather than an overarching and slightly inchoate emotional 'movement'. Not least because of the intersecting consequences of climate change on all aspects of social justice (Immigration, housing, health and welfare). The next stage is the difficult, local, on the ground and bottom-up organic work... because without solidarity and alliances, you have nothing. Everything (therefore everyone) is affected. Stitching it all together in coalitions requires a whole range of different tactics and languages.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
To take the XR side small campaigns about specific issues are limited. They have being going on for years. People will protest about something that affects their backyard.
XR have successfully put the issue , despite Brexit, on the front pages. Even if only for a short while. No number of small local campaigns will do that.
If they do move in the direction of the Peace News article that will be a significant change in direction. Point of XR is to build mass non violent protest movement here to change government direction once and for all. Time is to short for building up in the grassroots taking time and energy in small local campaigns.
XR have successfully put the issue , despite Brexit, on the front pages. Even if only for a short while. No number of small local campaigns will do that.
If they do move in the direction of the Peace News article that will be a significant change in direction. Point of XR is to build mass non violent protest movement here to change government direction once and for all. Time is to short for building up in the grassroots taking time and energy in small local campaigns.
Ground Elder
Well-Known Member
What do people think of their push for a Citizen's Assembly? A random group of peeps given power to make decision, taking views from experts etc.
Seems that this idea is presented without any push for a wider revolution, which means it will just sit in a capitalist context and be utterly worthless
Seems that this idea is presented without any push for a wider revolution, which means it will just sit in a capitalist context and be utterly worthless
Flavour
hang the bankers
exactly
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I think if it is was worthless that would be ok. It will be bad.
An unelected citizens assembly could end up being a figleaf for all sorts of horrors - the sort of dystopian "solutions" that Out of the Woods were hinting at. Technocratic erosion of democracy with a smile on its face.
An unelected citizens assembly could end up being a figleaf for all sorts of horrors - the sort of dystopian "solutions" that Out of the Woods were hinting at. Technocratic erosion of democracy with a smile on its face.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
It's a horrible idea and basically technocracy with a bit of wool and glitter stuck on
Surely a random sortition of people is the opposite of a technocracy?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
because...
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Except this would be a citizens committee 'taking the views of experts' eg signing off on what the technocrats say
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Would be all for it if they were basically trying to form soviets
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Rebellion extincts you...
because an authority based on random selection is at odds with an authority based on expertise and knowledge. The process they propose, afaict, is not based on expertise or technical knowledge. It's random selection of any joe blow in the country.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
soviet small s, workers councils/assemblies whatever, not trying to recreate the USSR
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
do you have any idea just how difficult it is to genuinely select people randomly?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
At least we'll have clear meeting minutes confirming that we *deserved* to go extinct.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I'm not wasting a bad pun/meme cos of boring technical details.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Eight of a ten experts think we should start sterilising people, we'll start with these poor ones
That isn't really relevant to your question. I'm not advocating this at all. As I said I think it's a bad idea and I explained why.
Finally, common sense policies to make Britain Great again. Just like in the old days, at the vicarage, with the cucuber sandiwches (no fucking crusts though!)
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Have we had this bizarre Telegraph piece where the leaders of extinction rebellion admit one of them made a mistake in being a revolutionary, and then they go into a bizarre rant about how just-in-time inventory practices are the real problem?
I'm sympathetic to so many people involved in XR but these two are such a liability and I fear they will end up letting a lot of people down.
I'm sympathetic to so many people involved in XR but these two are such a liability and I fear they will end up letting a lot of people down.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's the first question i've asked (the ? gives it away, you see) so i think it is relevant to my question. i haven't suggested you are advocating it.
selecting people at random - truly selecting people at random - can only really be done in a technologically advanced society and would imo mark your actual control of society by a technological elite because the people randomly selected would be reliant on their advice for what to do.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
they already have let a lot of people down
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Coincidence that this is being pushed when liberal democracy is showing signs of losing its grip?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
perhaps you could express any difference of opinion in words too
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...but not the people funding them.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
who pays the piper calls the tune
