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Extinction Rebellion

Idaho said:
This is precisely why very public peacefulness and compliance is such a good tactic. No point trying force as you will get crushed. Anyhow... This is p&p and I've said all I have on the matter. Beyond this there only lies repetition and bun fighting.
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for the terminally stupid IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE PEACEABLE AS THE COPS STRENGTHEN THEIR BATON ARMS ON THE BODIES OF THE NON-VIOLENT
 
8ball said:
Have you been observing any of this?
The arrestables have been carried off like tame little lambs for the most part.
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Christ. I'm just trying to get the point across that it's making the job easier for police, taking some fear out of it for them.
 
Pickman's model said:
yeh i'm not talking about recruitment targets, you can put that strawman down. i'm talking about your actual recruitment within the local police force, the metropolitan police. perhaps you could support your claim about single cops policing medium-sized towns with an example from the metropolitan police district. but you can't, because you're not big on evidence.

the simple point which has so very easily evaded you is it doesn't matter if the police agree with your political campaign, they will twat you nonetheless if that's what they're ordered to do.
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I was not thinking about the metropolitan police, but of an example I heard over the weekend . A single policeman covering all of Redcar and Cleveland. Which, being as you are a shrieky, literal and frankly tiresome person will now announce some form of victory in this discussion.

As for police always cracking heads when told to... I think that this discipline breaks down in certain circumstances.
 
I think it's important to distinguish between "Capitalisms". The capitalism underpinned by parliamentary democracy would certainly not be capable of enacting radical change for fear of losing votes. Capitalism a la Chinese, i.e. with a one-party monopoly over the State, could potentially take radical action without such fears.
 
Idaho said:
I suppose we are in transition from labour/tory to something else. Brexit and climate change are the levers that are moving people away from the existing structure. I wonder what it was like when tory/Liberal broke down? I'll go and have a read and see if there are any parallels.
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Think that was more Liberals going if we expand the electorate beyond home owning males they will all vote for us... Only they didn't
 
Idaho said:
I was not thinking about the metropolitan police, but of an example I heard over the weekend . A single policeman covering all of Redcar and Cleveland. Which, being as you are a shrieky, literal and frankly tiresome person will now announce some form of victory in this discussion.
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yeh everyone knows about the paucity of police in some places. but i don't think i'd want to steal theresa may's or amber rudd's victory, after all it's their work wot done it. but it's fucking irrelevant. you're saying the met have been gentle with xr because of policing in redcar and cleveland.

that's really very fucking stupid. even for you.

As for police always cracking heads when told to... I think that this discipline breaks down in certain circumstances.
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yeh like when the cops killed ian tomlinson, when the man who killed him shouldn't have been out cracking skulls but sat tight in a police van.
 
mwgdrwg said:
Christ. I'm just trying to get the point across that it's making the job easier for police, taking some fear out of it for them.
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Fear? Fear of what? Six months' gardening leave followed by an acquittal from the IPCC if they accidentally crack someone's skull open?

E2a: If you go on the piggy forums you will see them talking up the risks they take policing protests, talking like they're all off to the fucking Somme tomorrow morning or something. But they must know nothing ever happens to them, they're just winding themselves up to the point where they feel OK about putting the boot into unarmed, peaceful, innocent people.
 
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Idaho said:
I was not thinking about the metropolitan police, but of an example I heard over the weekend . A single policeman covering all of Redcar and Cleveland. Which, being as you are a shrieky, literal and frankly tiresome person will now announce some form of victory in this discussion.

As for police always cracking heads when told to... I think that this discipline breaks down in certain circumstances.
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Do remind when the police refused orders to crack heads? Go back as far as you like?
 
TopCat said:
Do remind when the police refused orders to crack heads? Go back as far as you like?
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If you seek the support or approval of the police you are knowingly turning away from the huge swathes of society that are systematically mistreated by the police. It's not a neutral, apolitical thing at all. It's a decision about who you value more, ordinary people or the boot boys of the capitalist system you claim to oppose.
 
If it looks like the cops assigned to a protest might not be up for the desired level of violence, they bring in other cops who will be.

I think the extent to which XR people unquestioningly trust the police is exaggerated though. There are plenty of folk there with extensive experience, and while there might be some friendly tweets and chat, I don't see any _actions_ that indicate trust. They've been able to stay there for a long time after all.
 
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On Policing.

I don't think the policing has been soft. Its thats initially the protest caught the police by surprise.

My night on Waterloo Bridge showed the level of organisation and resources police can manage when put to it. It is not getting truncheons out but its the police showing they can gradually crush dissent.

The use of non violence by XR as a tactic wasn't imo because of naivety. It was because they knew that full on confrontation would be crushed straight away. XR didn't think police would just let them get on with it. If I get it right the tactic was that so many people would be arrested that this would spark off mass civil disobedience. The tactical use of NVDA was partly due to knowing that the State and its instrument the Police have the resources to crush violent dissent.

I think the XR tactic has been partially successful. It hasn't been so successful is sparking mass disobedience.

On the bank holiday weekend it looked to me like the police had got loads of extra police in for the weekend.
 
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Gramsci said:
On Policing.

I don't think the policing has been soft. Its thats initially the protest caught the police by surprise.

My night on Waterloo Bridge showed the level of organisation and resources police can manage when put to it. It is not getting truncheons out but its the police showing they can gradually crush dissent.

The use of non violence by XR as a tactic wasn't imo because of naivety. It was because they knew that full on confrontation would be crushed straight away. XR didn't think police would just let them get on with it. If I get it right the tactic was that so many people would be arrested that this would spark off mass civil disobedience. The tactical use of NVDA was partly due to knowing that the State and its instrument the Police have the resources to crush violent dissent.

I think the XR tactic has been partially successful. It hasn't been so successful is sparking mass disobedience.

On the bank holiday weekend it looked to me like the police had got loads of extra police in for the weekend.
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Yeh they got loads of cops in for the weekend but if you were privy to high-level xr discussions I bet you'd have heard them banking on broken heads - which given how previous climate things went would be a reasonable assumption
 
I see Exsnitchion Rebellion have announced that their work is done, the planet is saved and they can all go back to the suburbs. Bravo. Bravo I say.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
If it looks like the cops assigned to a protest might not be up for the desired level of violence, they bring in other cops who will be.

I think the extent to which XR people unquestioningly trust the police is exaggerated though. There are plenty of folk there with extensive experience, and while there might be some friendly tweets and chat, I don't see any _actions_ that indicate trust. They've been able to stay there for a long time after all.
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I met very few people who were all over the police. many were veterans of all sorts of other campaigns and had a lot of police experience.
 
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