Extinction Rebellion

[Pickman's model]

Sorry, I just don't see it. It's just another system of representation - with sortition attempting to get a cross-section of the population's views rather than through voting for parties (not a system known for picking up the nuances of people's views itself). All systems of representation have problems, but at a large scale it's difficult to get away from it altogether.

i am astonished that you don't think about how people engage with their mps between elections, such as writing to them, lobbying them at parliament or visiting their surgeries.

sure, we don't live in a democracy. but we do live in a society where people routinely bring their concerns to their mps' attention. hell, even in russia people bring things to putin's attention and now and then he listens to them.

 

[Brainaddict]

Are you seriously arguing we'd be better off under a dictatorship? How do we win anything under that system? What's the point of protests and strikes if decisons are made by unaccountable committees? What kind of monstrously violent state structures would be required to keep the inevitable dissent in check?

So to answer these questions in order:
1. I don't think it's any more a dictactorship than what we have now.
2. I assume you would establish social movements with mass membership so that you could make sure your people got selected regularly.
3. This question is so absurd to someone involved in ignored strikes and protests for 20 years that I don't know how to answer it.
4. Same as now I guess, so definitely less than ideal.

 

[Pickman's model]

So to answer these questions in order:
1. I don't think it's any more a dictactorship than what we have now.

generally in a dictatorship the dictator er dictates. if you see the number of embarrassing u-turns the current administration has had to make - despite their 80 seat majority in the commons - it's clear we don't in fact live in a dictatorship. so sure say we live in a dictatorship if you want. but you just make yourself look very very stupid to anyone who has studied real dictatorships like stalin's russia, hitler's germany or franco's spain.

 

[smokedout]

Thanks for that, I did try to respond but lost the will to live halfway through and had to go get a drink.

 

[tufty79]

.

 

[tufty79]

Because they're run by a bunch of posh arrogant clowns with no real answers, solutions or even coherent politics with a strategy cobbled together by some know nothing dickhead who thinks he's some kind of messiah because he read half a shit book about political movements once.

I'm going through the thread backwards, so sorry if this has been pointed out.
If we're talking Hallam, he cofounded radical routes 20+ years ago.

If I ever meet him, there will be trouble, the culty fucker.

 

[Red Sky]

I'm going through the thread backwards, so sorry if this has been pointed out.
If we're talking Hallam, he cofounded radical routes 20+ years ago.

If I ever meet him, there will be trouble, the culty fucker.

He's fairly easy to find.

Are you saying RR is a cult?

 

[tufty79]

My experience is that they certainly engage in cult like tactics (specific members, and the long term v involved organisers, at least). I'm a former member.

I only found out about the link between er and rr the other week - I've steered clear of local activists and keeping up with movements for a few years. I kept well away from er because I knew that all the local coops would be in the midst, I just didn't realise how deep in. I don't think I'm going to be going out of my way to find/meet him, but I might send him a Strongly Worded Letter if/when I feel ready to.

 

[LDC]

Absolutely shit cringing interview with Gail Bradbrook on Radio 4 this morning. She went on about her hippie retreat, some psychedelic consciousness claptrap, and how people were environmental war criminals or something. Serves me right for listening to Radio 4 really.

 

[ska invita]

Is there a climate change thread on the go other than this one?
It is good to see that zero emissions for the UK is pretty easily achievable if there were the will (though it won't be, based on whats required)

Ending UK’s climate emissions ‘affordable’, say official advisers

CCC recommendation includes half of cars being electric by 2030, gas boilers phased out and 10,000 wind turbines

www.theguardian.com

...i presume (might be wrong) this ignore the carbon footprint of the UKs imports, which since we have basically externalised our industrial working class, handily makes for clever carbon bookkeeping ??
and if that is the case, is there a way of seeing the UK carbon footprint including all imports?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Absolutely shit cringing interview with Gail Bradbrook on Radio 4 this morning. She went on about her hippie retreat, some psychedelic consciousness claptrap, and how people were environmental war criminals or something. Serves me right for listening to Radio 4 really.

I didn't hear it, but there's a link between the use of psychedelics and appreciation of nature - it's not hippie nonsense. I don't really have a problem with someone or something being labelled an environmental war criminal (or similar) either. Corporations, businesses and us as individuals need to become a lot more environmentally responsible.

 

[Chilli.s]

Is there a climate change thread on the go other than this one?
It is good to see that zero emissions for the UK is pretty easily achievable if there were the will (though it won't be, based on whats required)

Ending UK’s climate emissions ‘affordable’, say official advisers

CCC recommendation includes half of cars being electric by 2030, gas boilers phased out and 10,000 wind turbines

www.theguardian.com

...i presume (might be wrong) this ignore the carbon footprint of the UKs imports, which since we have basically externalised our industrial working class, handily makes for clever carbon bookkeeping ??
and if that is the case, is there a way of seeing the UK carbon footprint including all imports?

Exactly. What does zero emissions even mean? especially in a global context. Will I have to pay extra carbon tax if I burn the toast? It's a buzzword at best.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

BB1 is doing environmental science at college for A level, it's by far her favourite subject and is extremely interesting, also quite depressing as the conclusion to pretty much everything = fucked. Will check with her to what definition of zero-carbon they are working from.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Exactly. What does zero emissions even mean? especially in a global context. Will I have to pay extra carbon tax if I burn the toast? It's a buzzword at best.

This is why we need to work together globally and can't retreat into an "our country first" bubble.

 

[CNT36]

As I travelled from Penzance to Paignton on Saturday they were putting up banners on all the bridges on the A30. By the time I headed back on Sunday they were all down.

Also welcome back tufty79.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

According to BB1 carbon zero is zero carbon emitted which can’t happen unless we all stop breathing and farting. Carbon neutral can be achieved but does not reflect the carbon we outsource to China and the other places we get to make our crap for us, so on a planetary scales it’s bobbins, but still better than nothing...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

According to BB1 carbon zero is zero carbon emitted which can’t happen unless we all stop breathing and farting. Carbon neutral can be achieved but does not reflect the carbon we outsource to China and the other places we get to make our crap for us, so on a planetary scales it’s bobbins, but still better than nothing...

I know there are some moves in the EU to include outsourced carbon (and environmental impact generally) in figures, given that it's kind of breathtakingly hypocritical to claim you're doing your bit and point the figure at countries where they actually do your manufacturing. Whether they have any chance I don't know. But we're still fucked either way so eh.

 

[mauvais]

XR's "help tha police" strategy going laughably wrong there.

 

[mojo pixy]

That's like helping a school bully with their homework, so they get a better mark than you, then they report you for copying them.

 

[editor]

Protest this morning

Extinction Rebellion Lambeth protest at Town Hall: no more baby steps to save the planet, activists tell council

This morning, forty pairs of children’s shoes were placed on the steps of Lambeth Town Hall today by environment activists Extinction Rebellion, in protest at the council’s “lack of urgent ac…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[mojo pixy]

It seems some people have dug tunnels under Euston Sq. Gardens to try and stop HS2 and more specifically, the gardens being paved over for a taxi rank...

HS2 protesters dig 100ft tunnel under London park

Impressively mad.

I mention it here because XR are promoting it and asking for ''help at Euston Square'' on twitter, so they're related somehow.

 

[campanula]

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savetheoaks.org

I put in an order for 100 saplings.

 

[mauvais]

Protest this morning

Extinction Rebellion Lambeth protest at Town Hall: no more baby steps to save the planet, activists tell council

This morning, forty pairs of children’s shoes were placed on the steps of Lambeth Town Hall today by environment activists Extinction Rebellion, in protest at the council’s “lack of urgent ac…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

It's probably unfair to presume but I imagine these are the boots of 40 children that XR had remanded directly to Belmarsh.

 

[Red Sky]

It's probably unfair to presume but I imagine these are the boots of 40 children that XR had remanded directly to Belmarsh.

What does that even mean?

 

[mauvais]

What does that even mean?

The joy of this is always the explaining isn't it? As we can see here, XR love a bit of inevitably disastrous collaboration with the police and state, so I reckon there's a strong chance that they got the cute lil boot owners semi-voluntarily nicked. A double win for publicity: locked up kids are photogenic, and noone had to drive out to John Lewis and buy forty pairs of tiny shoes.

 

[muscovyduck]

View attachment 251709

what the fuck is that??????????????????????

 

[mauvais]

what the fuck is that??????????????????????

It's from a 2019 protest, if you can call it that.

XR Red Handed Rebellion – Extinction Rebellion UK

TOMORROW – 18 October 12pm – Whitehall Gardens – Red-Handed Rebellion At the beginning of this Rebellion, we asked the Government one simple question: ‘What is your plan for the Climate and Ecological Emergency?’. So far, the only answer we have been given is that we are protesting in the wrong...

extinctionrebellion.uk

This will additionally force the police into a dilemma situation

Yeah, of who's going to fall down the stairs first.

 

[muscovyduck]

XR Red Handed Rebellion – Extinction Rebellion UK

TOMORROW – 18 October 12pm – Whitehall Gardens – Red-Handed Rebellion At the beginning of this Rebellion, we asked the Government one simple question: ‘What is your plan for the Climate and Ecological Emergency?’. So far, the only answer we have been given is that we are protesting in the wrong...

extinctionrebellion.uk

I'm howling. Why did no one research red hand imagery and symbolism in the UK? As in, the bits of the UK that aren't London or England? Pretty sloppy for a group that's dealing with such a geo-political based issue like climate change, to put it mildly

 

[TopCat]

The HS2 protest tunnels seem crazy to me. A friend who knows says there are a lot of vulnerable youngsters down there.

 

[LDC]

The HS2 protest tunnels seem crazy to me. A friend who knows says there are a lot of vulnerable youngsters down there.

If so that's the same as every site protest thing, they attract all sorts of people, plenty from the vulnerable/margins. Not a failure of them, a failure of society though. Although I know it does raise some problems and issues for sure.