littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah it matters where your money comes from. One of XR's many problems.
Extinction Rebellion
- Thread starter Jeremiah18.17
- Start date
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Those problems are certainly mounting up.
If I was a mega-rich part-owner of torture camps and airports, a few pennies bunged in the direction of any group trying to hold me to account might be quite a wheeze.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I think it's more like those companies making donations to the Catholic Church.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Any reason why particularly them and particularly now?
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
They are self indulgent uneconomical cars about as far from public transport as it's possible to get.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Load of people up for s14 from the first XR, some of them pleading guilty 
Too many supporters have turned up for the number of chairs
Too many supporters have turned up for the number of chairs
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
But I thought one of the more interesting things about XR was a move away from that kinda protest thing where it looks like you're just asking people to choose a 'better' car?
This popped up yesterday, worth a read Dear XR, why not be more honest with your participants? — Why Social Movements Matter
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
It's good that all the other producers of such products have been dealt with.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
Well perhaps. Maybe less troublesome than the tube. The thing with expensive cars is that they are a status symbol. I'd tax them as such but that's a different story.
That's a long read but has some sense in it.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
Is there a special "status symbol" tax?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
Not yet, what do you think? I like it as an idea.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
A lot of people liked the idea of age-limiting dodgy (or just adult) internet content.
I think this idea has similar surface appeal and falls apart equally as quickly.
Some places have "luxury taxes" which I think has more coherence (and might be kind of what you have in mind - maybe I'm taking the terms over-literally).
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
Yeah that's it. The product remains a status symbol but the rich pay an extraordinary amount to be flash.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
The "luxury tax" concept has some overlap with the "sin tax" concept (see beer/fags etc.).
Except that certain status symbols are such because only certain people can afford them, and hence pay over the odds for them, just to show they can. Smokers, on the other hand, would love fags to be cheaper.
Would be interesting to see how it would pan out, the main “usage reduction” mechanic would be borked, and you might actually have a pressure in the direction of increased use. Plus other effects based on what market bracket you push the goods into.
If you want to optimally reduce usage you could look at pushing the prices of specific goods into price categories where the usual buyers think that particular thing is hopelessly naff.
<ponders>
One good thing is that you will have some dosh for the treasury, but being able to see the rich has some utility too, so many of them go round in disguise as it is.
WouldBe
Dislicksick
Apart from being the size of a bus.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
Hold on there! not torched, "community recycled" stripped down and sold through the back door to the workers who have to fix the damn things when they go wrong. Win win!
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Luxury goods tax - not a new idea.
Towards a Luxury Goods Tax
The article then goes on to argue for a new luxury goods tax.
Towards a Luxury Goods Tax
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
That's it, vat taxes the poor on the stuff they need and the rich too but as a proportion of the 2 groups incomes the poor pay more. Rich always need to show off and at a certain level can have anything they want and will still buy it no matter what the cost.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Good piece from John Warwick, which exposes Hallem’s crap, & touches on what Pickman's model was saying about a diversity of tactics has to be the way forward.
No, Extinction Rebels, nonviolence is not the only way
No, Extinction Rebels, nonviolence is not the only way
Nothing to disagree with in John's piece. As suggested, XR are new, burgeoning, and prone to the mistakes that infants might make as they are developing. Roger H has displayed some outstanding upside qualities (energy, courage, self sacrifice, and putting money where mouth is), but the neg ones are troubling. Internal democracy needs enhancing. and don't forget the man remains a political prisoner.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
A few comments on the article :
- Underlying the whole article is why didn't XR ask me about their strategy as I'm an academic whose written books. I found this irritating.
- On the "tyranny of structurelessness " he is right.
- That XR is just a southern England based organisaton is just wrong.
- There is now more debate. See posts about XR Scotland which openly criticise leading lights of XR. Have to see how that goes.
- On XR attitude to police showing that they don't understand the nature of the state I think he is wrong. XR official line is that so called parliamentary democracy is in hock to big vested interests. Why the call for mass civil disobedience. So XR do see the present State as a problem. My talks with XR on the ground is that they don't want to blame individual police who are just ordinary people caught in the crossfire so to speak. This still is questionable. But XR do have a criticism of the State. ( Though rank and file XR don't always get this I think. They think XR is like a pressure group. As one said to me she wants to get a message through to Boris).
Well I know SWP in my area. The SWP is quite strong but has members who been in it a long time. So not everyone burns out.
I'm involved in a couple of community campaigns. Which can grind one down. A friend gave up on that and joined XR as it seemed more like doing something.
I also think that XR , unlike SWP, do try to care about the member welfare. I've seen well being tents at XR demos. Not something the hard left does.
So whilst the writer of the article is right about some things I think this is a harsh outsiders view.
The writer of the article is an academic who luckily can combine being an academic with activism.
I personally would like to see the word activist ditched.
Most people who are socially concerned and do a bit ( I include myself in that) aren't full time activists. Unlike the writer of the article most people aren't going to be able to do that.
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