Epistemology

[Dillinger4]

Dillinger, what about proving me wrong on all I posted in this thread

salaam.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7164183#post7164183

 

[bluestreak]

there is NO truth, no content, no knowledge

you have to use your feel-edge.

Oh, I've got feelage right now

 

[Dillinger4]

I am your idea is just bleating. A sheeple, if you will.

 

[bodach]

No philosophgy is a secular mysticism that only cool people are allowed to do.

What do you mean by that butchers? I would never say I'm cool. I will be one day, when I'm dead.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

What is the "power of the void"?

i dont know exactly, but it can be hinted at through poetry.

its the non-specific, un-pin-down-able mystery that is throughout all things.
the anti-knowledge.

its the silence in your mind when confronted with something you cannot work out.

 

[bluestreak]

its the silence in your mind when confronted with something you cannot work out.

well, that's certainly anti-knowledge all right.

of course, most of us call that silence ignorance.

 

[Dillinger4]

i dont know exactly, but it can be hinted at through poetry.

its the non-specific, un-pin-down-able mystery that is throughout all things.
the anti-knowledge.

its the silence in your mind when confronted with something you cannot work out.

Oh.

Right.

Deep.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

well, that's certainly anti-knowledge all right.

of course, most of us call that silence ignorance.

do you think zen is stupid?

 

[bluestreak]

Zen? It's alright I guess. It serves a purpose.

 

[Jonti]

"Mind and body are one", as articul8 said in #321.

i-am-your-idea, I suggest you check the link below, then go spend a few months there.
When you come back you may know something about zen. OK?

http://www.throssel.org.uk/

 

[i-am-your-idea]

"Mind and body are one", as articul8 said in #321.

i-am-your-idea, I suggest you check the link below, then go spend a few months there.
When you come back you may know something about zen. OK?

http://www.throssel.org.uk/

that looks cool! did you go?

 

[Jonti]

Yes, indeedy, a long time ago now. I found it most worthwhile.

If you feel drawn to buddhism/zen (and if the "spiritual" pseuds that snipe and sneer on these boards disgust you) you will likely find it invaluable as well.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

Yes, indeedy, a long time ago now. I found it most worthwhile.

If you feel drawn to buddhism/zen (and if the "spiritual" pseuds that snipe and sneer on these boards disgust you) you will likely find it invaluable as well.

nah, i love the abuse! that does look interesting tho. my dads into zen, so i've got heaps of books on the subject- but it would be nice to go to a place like that and just soak up the atmosphere.

 

[Jonti]

Yeah, go have a good soak. Total immersion for a few works or so would be good. Somewhat authoritarian, and precious in parts, but at least you don't get hit with a stick during the zazen sessions.

Which you do, for hours each day, between walking meditation, eating meditation, washing up meditation, gardening meditation. You get the picture, I'm sure

 

[max_freakout]

has anyone actually given an arguement why knowledge is possible yet??

No, because it's impossible to give such an argument, until you know what 'knowledge' is, which you never will because knowledge cannot exist

 

[max_freakout]

So clearly what is needed here is a definition of knowledge.

You cannot define knowledge, because it is impossible

knowledge cannot exist, even as a concept

 

[max_freakout]

I gave it.

Knowledge is an eternal absolute, a beginning and endmark, unchangeable.
That is why it is out of reach for the human mind and hence should be treated as non-existent.

salaam.

this definition explains very well why knowledge is impossible, but it does not fully define what knowledge is

I think, to define knowledge meaningfully, you would have to say what it is that makes it different from belief


I know that p

I believe that p

what is the difference?

 

[i-am-your-idea]

knowledge cannot exist, even as a concept

even as a concept?

 

[max_freakout]

I think that knowledge is

that which is known as true or believed to be true.

that is a totally redundant definition of knowledge, because it completely overlooks the most important thing about knowledge which is what makes it different from belief

Epistemology is the study or knowledge, what it is, how we get it, the value and quality of knowledge, truth, understanding, intuition etc etc.

epistemology is only concerned with whether knowledge exists, and what it is

 

[max_freakout]

even as a concept?

no concept of knowledge could possibly exist

what would it be?

 

[i-am-your-idea]

this definition explains very well why knowledge is impossible, but it does not fully define what knowledge is

I think, to define knowledge meaningfully, you would have to say what it is that makes it different from belief


I know that p

I believe that p

what is the difference?

i see what you mean. if you believe knowledge is possible, then knowledge is different from belief. but if you think knowledge is impossible, then saying 'i know' is the same as saying 'i believe'

but whats to stop knowledge existing as a useful concept in a story?

 

[max_freakout]

That wouldn't go down well with the makers of Anadin.

because nothing isnt anything

knowledge isnt anything

 

[max_freakout]

but whats to stop knowledge existing as a useful concept in a story?

I think logic stops knowledge existing as a useful concept in a story? Why should a story be any different from reality? Why would knowledge be able to exist ina story if it cant exist in reality?

 

[Dillinger4]

*yawn*

 

[max_freakout]

yes its based on Nothing, and as such you are unable to challenge it. thats the power of the void.

Lol

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I think logic stops knowledge existing as a useful concept in a story? Why should a story be any different from reality? Why would knowledge be able to exist ina story if it cant exist in reality?

like all words it has potential for poetic meaning, regardless of whether its a non-concept or not.

 

[max_freakout]

like all words it has potential for poetic meaning, regardless of whether its a non-concept or not.

i think it is a very special kind of non-concept

 

[Kizmet]

It's all relative...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Everyone's naming their uni texts.

If I can dig mine out, I'll name it, too.

 

[Jonti]

i think it is a very special kind of non-concept

So would need a very special sort of poem ...

We turn to see the spangled gleams of distant suns
Set far off in deepest velvet black.
So, unmoving, turn again, upon a point of dark,
Inside to no-when-where.

Those flecks of void, between all words
All thought, behind all feeling and desire,
Are gates to Formless Realm
That's like the soil that light and living knowledge
Somehow resembles into trees and grass and all
That out of unshaped mud erupt.

Unmoving, slip inside the void within.
Our roots are there, as firmly as the Oaks
Have theirs within the boundless earth.

No pain, no hate, no broken heart, no strife.
Nor taste, body; feeling none. No aim.
Nor anything to fear.