Epistemology

[i-am-your-idea]

So clearly what is needed here is a definition of knowledge.

a) thinking you know things : not impossible

b) knowing you know things : impossible

i think its b we are talking about. a is very boring to discuss because people can believe what they like.

 

[bluestreak]

*head meets desk*

 

[i-am-your-idea]

In rudimentary forms I guess, yes.

so you arent sure whether animals know anything?

or if you are sure, please could you explain it?

 

[bodach]

*head meets desk*

Are you sure it's not the other way round. I'm assuming it's your head that's moving.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

To "know" something is just to find a particular description of something to be compelling given the available information. "Knowledge" holds in a particular place and particular time - that doesn't mean that it is infallable or unconditionally true for all places and times.

i see a difference in knowing something, and being persuaded to believe by forcefulness of argument.

many of the beliefs held 1000 years ago seem laughable now, and this will happen again in the future. there is no truth, only currently held beliefs and knowledge is therefore impossible.

 

[Dillinger4]

a) thinking you know things : not impossible

b) knowing you know things : impossible

i think its b we are talking about. a is very boring to discuss because people can believe what they like.

Look at you, parroting max, almost word for word.

 

[bluestreak]

It could be. My knowledge is flawed. I know nothing but uncertainty. And pain, cos me teeth are giving me gyp. Unless they're someone else's teeth. I havne't quite got there yet.

 

[bluestreak]

Look at you, parroting max, almost word for word.

I actually went back and checked to see if that was a direct cuntpaste.

 

[Dillinger4]

i see a difference in knowing something, and being persuaded to believe by forcefulness of argument.

many of the beliefs held 1000 years ago seem laughable now, and this will happen again in the future. there is no truth, only currently held beliefs and knowledge is therefore impossible.

Instead of pretending, you should just quote max's posts.

 

[Dillinger4]

this is feel-edge!

Feel-edge. That word means nothing to me. You have just made it up, and it doesn't actually mean anything. I am not surprised you think there is no such thing as knowledge, because you live in some kind of content free world that you have just decided is true on a whim.

 

[Aldebaran]

So clearly what is needed here is a definition of knowledge.

I gave it.

Knowledge is an eternal absolute, a beginning and endmark, unchangeable.
That is why it is out of reach for the human mind and hence should be treated as non-existent.

salaam.

 

[articul8]

so you arent sure whether animals know anything?

or if you are sure, please could you explain it?

I don't (can't by definition) know everything that they 'know' because "know" pertains only to those forms of truth-claims that are comprehensible in terms of human experience. This is not, though, the same as saying that only humans know things. It is just that what humans know (of animals), they know from their perspective as humans.

It certainly doesn't mean that it is impossible to assert that animals know things. It simply doesn't make sense to say that when an animal screams it doesn't necessarily "know" that it is in pain

 

[Dillinger4]

has anyone actually given an arguement why knowledge is possible yet??

the worlds 'Knowledge' and 'Possible' have lost all meaning in this context. They are just empty buzz words that you just keep banging on about, without actually putting forward any realistic philosophical argument that is not entirely circular.

They are dead words in your mouth, falling out stillborn into a world that doesn't give a fuck about bullshit parroted made up opinions based on entirely nothing.

 

[Aldebaran]

Aldebaran's definition of knowledge:

Knowledge is an eternal absolute, a beginning and endmark, unchangeable.
That is why it is out of reach for the human mind and hence should be treated as non-existent.

salaam

 

[Jonti]

there is no truth, only currently held beliefs

Is that a fact?

Is it a fact that's a belief? So it's a fact it isn't a fact, iyswim.

And can I have some of what you're smoking, please?

 

[Aldebaran]

Dillinger, what about proving me wrong on all I posted in this thread

salaam.

 

[Dillinger4]

I don't think it is out of reach of the human mind.

 

[Dillinger4]

Dillinger, what about proving me wrong on all I posted in this thread

salaam.

Right. I have half an hour, then I have got to go out again. But I am going to have a go at posting that thread now.

 

[bluestreak]

I gave it.

Knowledge is an eternal absolute, a beginning and endmark, unchangeable.
That is why it is out of reach for the human mind and hence should be treated as non-existent.

salaam.

Well, I think you're wrong.

I think that knowledge is

that which is known as true or believed to be true.

Epistemology is the study or knowledge, what it is, how we get it, the value and quality of knowledge, truth, understanding, intuition etc etc.

Your mystic stuff isn't really useful. For example, I know how to make a cup of tea. This knowledge may be an illusion if you think reality is different to how it appears to be, but the basic premise of combining hot water, tea, milk, and one lump is pretty damn close to a fact. Knowable, understandable, unchangeable. the technology changes, so if we invented a new method of heating water perhaps that method would become unknowable to some. The process of growing tea or sugar might not be knowable to someone with no knowledge of how plant management works. The trickiest thing is what makes life? but the fact of the nice cuppa remains.
IYSWIM.

Philosophy doesn't ahve to be mystic, it can be practical too. the mystic stuff is just intellectual wanking IMO. you say to the average cunt on the street "knowledge is impossible" he'd probably give you a slap and steal your wallet, safe in the knowledge that you won't pick him out the line up due to not having any knowledge.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

the worlds 'Knowledge' and 'Possible' have lost all meaning in this context. They are just empty buzz words that you just keep banging on about, without actually putting forward any realistic philosophical argument that is not entirely circular.

They are dead words in your mouth, falling out stillborn into a world that doesn't give a fuck about bullshit parroted made up opinions based on entirely nothing.

yes its based on Nothing, and as such you are unable to challenge it. thats the power of the void. any other concept of knowledge could be easily challenged. even if you think you know, theres always a possiblity that you dont. so everything rests on mystery, Nothingness.

if people didnt care about this, then what are they doing on this thread?

 

[bodach]

yes its based on Nothing, and as such you are unable to challenge it. thats the power of the void. any other concept of knowledge could be easily challenged. even if you think you know, theres always a possiblity that you dont. so everything rests on mystery, Nothingness.

if people didnt care about this, then what are they doing on this thread?

I've a problem with the concept of what nothing is when you get an advert that says, 'Nothing acts faster that Anadin' 'Nothing beats the power of ...'

 

[bluestreak]

I've a problem with the concept of what nothing is when you get an advert that says, 'Nothing acts faster that Anadin' 'Nothing beats the power of ...'

To which the answer is "so why not use nothing"

 

[bodach]

To which the answer is "so why not use nothing"

That wouldn't go down well with the makers of Anadin.

 

[butchersapron]

No philosophgy is a secular mysticism that only cool people are allowed to do. Linguistic paradoxes and all that.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I don't think it is out of reach of the human mind.

you dont *think* it?

i thought you said knowledge is within our reach. now you sound less certain, are you?

 

[articul8]

ye even if you think you know, theres always a possiblity that you dont

More bollocks. I "know" these hard white things in my mouth that are fixed to my gums are my teeth. It makes no sense whatsoever to doubt it. How could I be wrong about this? Are they someone elses? Are they my toenails?

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe they are Pierces'?

 

[Dillinger4]

you dont *think* it?

i thought you said knowledge is within our reach. now you sound less certain, are you?

Not really, but STFU anyway, because you are just babbling.

 

[Dillinger4]

yes its based on Nothing, and as such you are unable to challenge it. thats the power of the void. any other concept of knowledge could be easily challenged. even if you think you know, theres always a possiblity that you dont. so everything rests on mystery, Nothingness.

if people didnt care about this, then what are they doing on this thread?

I am doing this thread because your ignorance is fucking irritating.

What is the "power of the void"?

It truly is a nothing, because you have just made a load of stuff up.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

Feel-edge. That word means nothing to me. You have just made it up, and it doesn't actually mean anything. I am not surprised you think there is no such thing as knowledge, because you live in some kind of content free world that you have just decided is true on a whim.

there is NO truth, no content, no knowledge

you have to use your feel-edge.