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Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

Just as an example, my longest commute in London:

Downhills Park Tottenham
Finsbury Park
Camden - Regents park
Paddington - Hyde Park
Notting Hill - Shepherd's bush
Acton Park

13.5 miles, right through central London. Usually around 50 minutes. On a fixie. Where is the problem there? It would have been nice for it to have been faster, but I'm still getting there quicker than any other mode of transport save the entitled arseholes on powered bikes. Never once felt at risk of hitting a pedestrian.

Ime the pedestrians in the road thing only really gets bad when you're around the very centre - Oxford circus, Covent Garden, UCL/Kings, bits of the city at certain times. This was mildly annoying as a courier because that was your main area... But even then, riding like a tit, 8 hours a day I managed not to be overly bothered by it. There are other areas (Kentish town road, obviously the central bits of Camden, around King's cross), but it's not that bad.

Really what a fucking stupid jumping off point for traffic law reform. This parochial, entitled, short-sighted 'why can't I go a bit faster while the planet burns'. Fucking hell.
 
Cid said:
Just as an example, my longest commute in London:

Downhills Park Tottenham
Finsbury Park
Camden - Regents park
Paddington - Hyde Park
Notting Hill - Shepherd's bush
Acton Park

13.5 miles, right through central London. Usually around 50 minutes. On a fixie. Where is the problem there? It would have been nice for it to have been faster, but I'm still getting there quicker than any other mode of transport save the entitled arseholes on powered bikes. Never once felt at risk of hitting a pedestrian.

Ime the pedestrians in the road thing only really gets bad when you're around the very centre - Oxford circus, Covent Garden, UCL/Kings, bits of the city at certain times. This was mildly annoying as a courier because that was your main area... But even then, riding like a tit, 8 hours a day I managed not to be overly bothered by it. There are other areas (Kentish town road, obviously the central bits of Camden, around King's cross), but it's not that bad.

Really what a fucking stupid jumping off point for traffic law reform. This parochial, entitled, short-sighted 'why can't I go a bit faster while the planet burns'. Fucking hell.
Click to expand...
Presumably most of the pedestrian thing is when they’re trying to cross the road when traffic’s at a stand still. What are they meant to do - only use crossings! Fuck that.

Motorbike’s overtaking queueing traffic just need to be more careful and certainly not go at 15mph.
 
edcraw said:
Presumably most of the pedestrian thing is when they’re trying to cross the road when traffic’s at a stand still. What are they meant to do - only use crossings! Fuck that.

Motorbike’s overtaking queueing traffic just need to be more careful and certainly not go at 15mph.
Click to expand...

Yeah, crowded pavements, not great provision of crossing points, not always very visible etc. I mean providing extra crossing points without the jaywalking would probably also work. But 100% the same people would just switch their moaning to there being too many sets of lights etc.
 
thebackrow said:
Motorcyclists are disproprotiationaly dangerous to other road users - second only to HGVs - per mile they travel.
View attachment 337108

Road accidents and safety statistics
Click to expand...

Can you point me to the source please? I've been trawling the government site but can't find it

edit: AFAICS the chart is illustrating the deaths of 14 pedestrians. All 14 were heartbreaking tragedies but in the context of road deaths in a country of 60+ million people, 14 isn't usually a big enough number to permit meaningful analysis of trends
 
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Cid said:
Just as an example, my longest commute in London:

Downhills Park Tottenham
Finsbury Park
Camden - Regents park
Paddington - Hyde Park
Notting Hill - Shepherd's bush
Acton Park

13.5 miles, right through central London. Usually around 50 minutes. On a fixie. Where is the problem there? It would have been nice for it to have been faster, but I'm still getting there quicker than any other mode of transport save the entitled arseholes on powered bikes. Never once felt at risk of hitting a pedestrian.

Ime the pedestrians in the road thing only really gets bad when you're around the very centre - Oxford circus, Covent Garden, UCL/Kings, bits of the city at certain times. This was mildly annoying as a courier because that was your main area... But even then, riding like a tit, 8 hours a day I managed not to be overly bothered by it. There are other areas (Kentish town road, obviously the central bits of Camden, around King's cross), but it's not that bad.

Really what a fucking stupid jumping off point for traffic law reform. This parochial, entitled, short-sighted 'why can't I go a bit faster while the planet burns'. Fucking hell.
Click to expand...
It’s not a question of wanting to go faster, for fuck’s sake- it’s mostly about not wanting to hit a pedestrian, or ending under the wheels of an oncoming bus trying to avoid hitting one for that matter, in probably the single most easily avoidable of all scenarios that might lead to a ped being hit by traffic: if crossing a congested or busy road, look both ways before proceeding.

And you say you never once feel at risk of hitting a pedestrian. That’s quite interesting in itself, not least because plenty of drivers and bikers will undoubtedly share that sentiment. But apart from that, perhaps you are one of the very few extremely cautious cyclists in existence who genuinely take all necessary precautions. But most London cyclists will travel at speeds in certain conditions that are every bit as dangerous as that you see as reckless on my part. In particular when riding on streets with a heavy pedestrian presence on the pavement but with a light traffic presence on the tarmac. Such as Shaftesbury Avenue at 6 pm. The pavement is rammed with plenty of peds walking close to the kerb, but there are no cars ahead. Most cyclists will be travelling at at least 12-15 mph, which it is a bit of piss for any cyclist younger than 80. Bottom line is this: even if a cyclist is taking the primary position, if any of those peds walking on the edge of the kerb suddenly decides to step onto the road and start crossing it, any cyclist close enough to them will hit them. Absolutely undeniable.

Ditto any of the countless thousands of streets that have a kerbside cycle lane or a bus lane, regardless of whether the pavement is crammed with pedestrians or not. if there is even just one pedestrian walking ahead near the kerb, there is absolutely no doubt that if they suddenly decided to step onto the road without checking, stupid as that would be, any cyclist going past them at anything faster than walking pace would crash into them if the ped stepped onto the road a couple of seconds before you were due to cycle past them.

Do the overwhelming majority of cyclists slow down to 5-6 mph (or even slow down at all) in the immediate vicinity of any pedestrians walking on the pavement to their left? Do they fuck.
 
Cid said:
13.5 miles, right through central London. Usually around 50 minutes. On a fixie. Where is the problem there? It would have been nice for it to have been faster, but I'm still getting there quicker than any other mode of transport save the entitled arseholes on powered bikes. Never once felt at risk of hitting a pedestrian.
Click to expand...

Not sure this proves anything - most cyclists and drivers, including bad ones, never hit pedestrians. However pedestrians do get hit, often by people like you who “never once felt at risk of hitting a pedestrian.”
 
Theres definitely been at least one point I could have hit a pedestrian while cycling, she was chatting to someone at the bakers then blithely walked out into the road facing backwards at a decent clip. I'm a decently cautious cyclist and hate road cycling but it was still fairly close. Road was a fairly quite one, with slow but constant traffic.

She had the self awareness to look a bit ashamed about it at least.
 
T & P said:
It’s not a question of wanting to go faster, for fuck’s sake- it’s mostly about not wanting to hit a pedestrian, or ending under the wheels of an oncoming bus trying to avoid hitting one for that matter, in probably the single most easily avoidable of all scenarios that might lead to a ped being hit by traffic: if crossing a congested or busy road, look both ways before proceeding.

And you say you never once feel at risk of hitting a pedestrian. That’s quite interesting in itself, not least because plenty of drivers and bikers will undoubtedly share that sentiment. But apart from that, perhaps you are one of the very few extremely cautious cyclists in existence who genuinely take all necessary precautions. But most London cyclists will travel at speeds in certain conditions that are every bit as dangerous as that you see as reckless on my part. In particular when riding on streets with a heavy pedestrian presence on the pavement but with a light traffic presence on the tarmac. Such as Shaftesbury Avenue at 6 pm. The pavement is rammed with plenty of peds walking close to the kerb, but there are no cars ahead. Most cyclists will be travelling at at least 12-15 mph, which it is a bit of piss for any cyclist younger than 80. Bottom line is this: even if a cyclist is taking the primary position, if any of those peds walking on the edge of the kerb suddenly decides to step onto the road and start crossing it, any cyclist close enough to them will hit them. Absolutely undeniable.

Ditto any of the countless thousands of streets that have a kerbside cycle lane or a bus lane, regardless of whether the pavement is crammed with pedestrians or not. if there is even just one pedestrian walking ahead near the kerb, there is absolutely no doubt that if they suddenly decided to step onto the road without checking, stupid as that would be, any cyclist going past them at anything faster than walking pace would crash into them if the ped stepped onto the road a couple of seconds before you were due to cycle past them.

Do the overwhelming majority of cyclists slow down to 5-6 mph (or even slow down at all) in the immediate vicinity of any pedestrians walking on the pavement to their left? Do they fuck.
Click to expand...

platinumsage said:
Not sure this proves anything - most cyclists and drivers, including bad ones, never hit pedestrians. However pedestrians do get hit, often by people like you who “never once felt at risk of hitting a pedestrian.”
Click to expand...

What I think neither of you grasp is that when we communicate we generally over simplify. It's a chronic problem with urban. People will always take the pedantic reading of your posts.

When I say I've never felt at risk of hitting a pedestrian, it's not because I'm blithely cycling past them, or never see them do things I might regard as daft. It's because I know my stopping distances, I know how to pay attention to the road, I know how to observe. You probably have a point with regards to my 18 year old self, but I'm not going to endorse him as an exemplar of how to use roads.

T&P. Think a little. Your system weight is what? 300kg minimum? You probably hit 20mph barely thinking about it. A cyclist? Maybe 100kg. Much better vision too. Going 20mph in London will feel fast. Then it's just physics. Quite apart from anything else I'm not arguing that every cyclist is wonderful. I'm saying the way you ride is dangerous. Doesn't exclude other people from riding dangerously does it? And er... accident statistics.

And yeah, kerbside cycle lanes are shit, I don't use them. As I said, we need safely segregated cycle lanes with reduced motor vehicle traffic, which I'm sure you'd be happy with.
 
David Clapson said:
Can you point me to the source please? I've been trawling the government site but can't find it

edit: AFAICS the chart is illustrating the deaths of 14 pedestrians. All 14 were heartbreaking tragedies but in the context of road deaths in a country of 60+ million people, 14 isn't usually a big enough number to permit meaningful analysis of trends
Click to expand...
No. If you’re trying to argue against this data do it yourself.

All the evidence seems to clearly show motorcyclists routinely and dangerously break traffic laws causing disproportionate death and serious injury to themselves and others. I see no reason why motorbikes (and cars for that matter) shouldn’t have mandatory speed limiters. They’re required for electric cycles. If you’re arguing against that you’re arguing you should be allowed to speed and we can clearly see the impact of that.

Post in thread 'Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.'
Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

As far as I can see there’s no legitimate reason to use a motorbike rather than an electric assist cycle within London. The trip lengths are manageable, there’s no difference in weatherproofing and (if you ride safely within speed limits) there’s no time penalty. But you reduce emissions, noise, and the temptation to dangerously break the law.
 
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Cheerio then. I think you'd do better in Daily Mail comments. Your rant about motorcyclists 'leaving a mess for society to clean up' is pure gold.
 
Cid said:
T&P. Think a little. Your system weight is what? 300kg minimum? You probably hit 20mph barely thinking about it. A cyclist? Maybe 100kg. Much better vision too. Going 20mph in London will feel fast. Then it's just physics.
Click to expand...

www.omnicalculator.com

Kinetic Energy Calculator

If you know the mass and velocity of an object, use the kinetic energy calculator to find it's energy in movement.
www.omnicalculator.com www.omnicalculator.com
 
David Clapson said:
They're generally referred to as donorcycles by A&E staff
Click to expand...
There is a definite tendency towards faster noisier motorbikes.


Given the rise of ebikes I can only assume there is a market for quieter not as macho versions that’s been neglected for a long time. Maybe with an electric engine.
 
Artaxerxes said:
There is a definite tendency towards faster noisier motorbikes.


Given the rise of ebikes I can only assume there is a market for quieter not as macho versions that’s been neglected for a long time. Maybe with an electric engine.
Click to expand...
So much noise pollution from motorbikes. I’m sure tons are above the legal limits. Very anti-social.
 
Artaxerxes said:
There is a definite tendency towards faster noisier motorbikes.


Given the rise of ebikes I can only assume there is a market for quieter not as macho versions that’s been neglected for a long time. Maybe with an electric engine.
Click to expand...

It's a little odd... e.g China electric scooters (I mean moped/bike type) are probably the main form of transport. I'm not sure of the licensing requirements at the moment; when I was there you didn't need one, but seems like various municipalities are further restricting the types you can ride unlicensed (this, tbh, is probably no bad thing - people got in accidents all the time). I suppose here it's because there's such an abundance of used petrol vehicles, and they're so cheap to run in any case.
 
Artaxerxes said:
There is a definite tendency towards faster noisier motorbikes.


Given the rise of ebikes I can only assume there is a market for quieter not as macho versions that’s been neglected for a long time. Maybe with an electric engine.
Click to expand...
The noise is because the owners buy an exhaust without a silencer or a cat. It's illegal but the law isn't enforced. The dickheads just want to make noise. It's the first thing they buy when they get a bike. They should be put in the stocks.

Bikes haven't got a great deal faster lately. They've been about as fast as they can be for the last 20 years, i.e. 0 - 100mph in less than six seconds and a top speed of nearly 190mph. You can't really go faster than that without reinventing tyres and enclosing the bike in a tube, like a missile.

I think the noise is even worse for the general public than the risk of being run over. In some parts of Germany they're dealing with it by banning motorbikes. In this country there's been talk of doing something, perhaps with noise cameras, for decades. But nothing is done. Enforcement is too labour intensive. A bobby on the beat can seize any vehicle if it's being driven antisocially, which would surely cover every twat who makes a racket. There's no need to measure the noise level or check the exhaust to see if it's an original part. But I've never heard of this being done to a biker, not even once, ever. Maybe plod won't do it because they'd have to wait with the bike for n hours until a tow truck arrives.

I don't think the noisy show off type of biker is going to want an electric bike. Sales of new petrol-powered bikes will become illegal in the UK in 2035. I think a lot of people will keep using them for many decades after that.
 
David Clapson said:
The noise is because the owners buy an exhaust without a silencer or a cat. It's illegal but the law isn't enforced. The dickheads just want to make noise. It's the first thing they buy when they get a bike. They should be put in the stocks.

Bikes haven't got a great deal faster lately. They've been about as fast as they can be for the last 20 years, i.e. 0 - 100mph in less than six seconds and a top speed of nearly 190mph. You can't really go faster than that without reinventing tyres and enclosing the bike in a tube, like a missile.

I think the noise is even worse for the general public than the risk of being run over. In some parts of Germany they're dealing with it by banning motorbikes. In this country there's been talk of doing something, perhaps with noise cameras, for decades. But nothing is done. Enforcement is too labour intensive. A bobby on the beat can seize any vehicle if it's being driven antisocially, which would surely cover every twat who makes a racket. There's no need to measure the noise level or check the exhaust to see if it's an original part. But I've never heard of this being done to a biker, not even once, ever. Maybe plod won't do it because they'd have to wait with the bike for n hours until a tow truck arrives.

I don't think the noisy show off type of biker is going to want an electric bike. Sales of new petrol-powered bikes will become illegal in the UK in 2035. I think a lot of people will keep using them for many decades after that.
Click to expand...

I'm just so used to hearing motorbikes engines bouncing off the walls I likely just don't notice the quiet ones.

As you say the people with those sort of bikes are not going to want to change it, part of the thrill is being loud for them.
 
Its just crazy that we gave all our streets over to cars no questions asked and we just allow them to take then piss.

Then drivers have the balls to whine whenever we look to add some minor restrictions.

E13016E0-3877-4F0C-87B6-94303C965165.png
 
edcraw said:
Not sure what that graph shows as no title so don’t know what it has to do with my point.
Click to expand...

It shows, as you well know, that as the Golf as became 18cm wider over the years due to structural safety improvements, the number of annual road deaths has plummeted.

But 18cm of width is obviously more outrageous to you than thousands of deaths.
 
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platinumsage said:
It shows, as you well know, that as the Golf as became 18cm wider over the years due to structural safety improvements, the number of annual road deaths has plummeted.

But 18cm of width is obviously more outrageous to you than thousands of deaths.
Click to expand...
Not sure what this has to giving over more and more space with no consultation at the detriment to our cities.
 
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