Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[maomao]

Still safer per mile travelled than a pushbike, by a massive margin.

Pushbike where? My understanding is that pushbikes are considerably safer when cars are removed from the road.

 

[dessiato]

Possibly acquired disability not related to long-term illness.

That, however, isn't what was said:

Let's not forget car accidents are a leading cause of disability in the first place eh.

I can accept your post more easily

 

[maomao]

Good to be specific if you want to be taken seriously.

I don't think anyone thought I was claiming car accidents caused disability from birth. How would that even work?

 

[Athos]

Pushbike where? My understanding is that pushbikes are considerably safer when cars are removed from the road.

So are cars, when other cars are removed from the road. But it's completely pie-in-the-sky to think that the current infrastructure is anywhere near good enough to remove cars from the road for the vast majority of people. Which is why this nonsense has no mass support; it remains a crank view.

 

[8ball]

Driving is certainly a lot nicer at the moment.

 

[8ball]

I don't think anyone thought I was claiming car accidents caused disability from birth. How would that even work?

Perhaps some kind of evidence for your assertion, even on the terms it was meant, would be useful.

 

[maomao]

So are cars, when other cars are removed from the road. But it's completely pie-in-the-sky to think that the current infrastructure is anywhere near good enough to remove cars from the road for the vast majority of people. Which is why this nonsense has no mass support; it remains a crank view.

Yes but you can have a lot of pushbikes without being more dangerous.

And just at the rest.

 

[8ball]

Which is why this nonsense has no mass support; it remains a crank view.

Removing all cars from the road is obviously a crank view (I figured this was intended as a crank thread in the first place), but reducing car use and numbers on the road is worth discussing.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Work buses you mean? That's certainly a reasonable idea if a lot of people live in one place and work in another.

Sticking to rural areas, one of the key issues with getting enough workers to pick fruit and veg is transport. There's no viable way to get people to work that doesn't pay people enough to run a car and happens in the middle of nowhere, so you get people brought in from Romania and Poland and warehoused on site in not-great conditions, while even people who live (by rural standards) nearby can't find work. A more socialised rural transport model, which would involve good paid work for drivers, could be customised according to need and could enable farmers to get work. Stuff like this could help make the countryside a more viable place for younger people to live.

 

[Athos]

Yes but you can have a lot of pushbikes without being more dangerous.

Why not go further, and ban pushbikes, too? No vehicle accidents then.

 

[maomao]

Perhaps some kind of evidence for your assertion, even on the terit was meant, would be useful.

Look up any year's road accident figures. Subtract fatalities from KSI and you have people who had to spend more than forty eight hours in hospital. If you want to prove that the proportion of these that didn't end up with a life changing disability is somehow insignificant you'll have to find proof for that.

 

[Orang Utan]

'pushbikes' lol. are you over 80 or summat?

 

[8ball]

'pushbikes' lol. are you over 80 or summat?

<resolves to always use "pushbike" from here on in...>

 

[Athos]

Sticking to rural areas, one of the key issues with getting enough workers to pick fruit and veg is transport. There's no viable way to get people to work that doesn't pay people enough to run a car and happens in the middle of nowhere, so you get people brought in from Romania and Poland and warehoused on site in not-great conditions, while even people who live (be rural standards) nearby can't find work. A more socialised rural transport model, which would involve good paid work for drivers, could be customised according to need and could enable farmers to get work. Stuff like this could help make the countryside a more viable place for younger people to live.

Have you fallen off and banged your head? Becasue this is uncharacteristically coherent.

 

[maomao]

Why not go further, and ban pushbikes, too? No vehicle accidents then.

Let's see what the annual road fatality rates are like after we get rid of cars eh. If they're still in the thousands, or even hundreds, we could certainly consider that.

 

[8ball]

Look up any year's road accident figures. Subtract fatalities from KSI and you have people who had to spend more than forty eight hours in hospital. If you want to prove that the proportion of these that didn't end up with a life changing disability is somehow insignificant you'll have to find proof for that.

 

[Athos]

Let's see what the annual road fatality rates are like after we get rid of cars eh. If they're still in the thousands, or even hundreds, we could certainly consider that.

Don't hold your breath. The car is here for the foreseeable future.

 

[8ball]

Have you fallen off and banged your head? Becasue this is uncharacteristically coherent.

One car crash away from genius.

 

[maomao]

View attachment 211857

Are you seriously doubting that thousands of people a year are left with permanent disabilities because of road accidents?

 

[scifisam]

I don't think anyone thought I was claiming car accidents caused disability from birth. How would that even work?

I thought you meant disability overall (it's not like there's only acquired disability and disability from birth, either). I mean, you just said disability, so that makes it look like you meant disability, and it looked like a slightly outlandish claim.

Not that it really matters anyway, since car accidents do lead to some disabilities, including to pedestrians and cyclists, and probably not a negligible amount. Though it'd be hard to find stats to either prove or disprove how common it was.

 

[Athos]

One car crash away from genius.

 

[8ball]

Are you seriously doubting that thousands of people a year are left with permanent disabilities because of road accidents?

"Leading cause of disability".
Well?

 

[Orang Utan]

Don't hold your breath. The car is here for the foreseeable future.

we have no forseeable future if we insist on keeping with them

 

[8ball]

we have no forseeable future if we insist on keeping with them

Fossil-fueled cars to be phased out by what? 2050?
No future, then.

 

[8ball]

Sticking to rural areas, one of the key issues with getting enough workers to pick fruit and veg is transport. There's no viable way to get people to work that doesn't pay people enough to run a car and happens in the middle of nowhere, so you get people brought in from Romania and Poland and warehoused on site in not-great conditions, while even people who live (be rural standards) nearby can't find work. A more socialised rural transport model, which would involve good paid work for drivers, could be customised according to need and could enable farmers to get work. Stuff like this could help make the countryside a more viable place for younger people to live.

Does look very reasonable. Would need some data on the economics to flesh it out, obviously.

 

[dessiato]

Look up any year's road accident figures. Subtract fatalities from KSI and you have people who had to spend more than forty eight hours in hospital. If you want to prove that the proportion of these that didn't end up with a life changing disability is somehow insignificant you'll have to find proof for that.

But since you are making the claim, surely the onus is on you to back it up?

 

[maomao]

"Leading cause of disability".
Well?

Well I'll admit to a bit of fuzzy phrasing but it's such an obvious thing I didn't expect quite this level of pedantry.

Firstly, there are all kinds of disabilities but the ones that are most relevant to our discussion are disabilities affecting mobility and particularly those needing a wheelchair. Funnily enough noone needed this clarified in the post I was replying to.

Anyway, road accidents are a leading cause of spinal injuries and spinal injuries are a leading cause of needing a wheelchair to get around. Clear enough?

 

[Athos]

we have no forseeable future if we insist on keeping with them

What about cars that don't use fossil fuel? Would they rob us of a future?

 

[Orang Utan]

What about cars that don't use fossil fuel? Would they rob us of a future?

some of us, yes

 

[Athos]

some of us, yes

Self-driving cars will soon be safer than pushbikes.