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English flag 'can provoke racism' in Wales!

editor said:
From the BBC:

Sounds bollocks to me, but whaddya reckon folks?
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Wolfendale's force seems a bit trigger-happy to me: it doesn't take much and they're sending deputations off to London to "investigate" anti-Welsh racism. Against the background of that, this just seems like another bit of a police force with not enough to do rushing around looking for teacups to have storms in.

HOWEVER, I must say, it's terribly refreshing to be wandering around a place and not see entire houses draped in St George's flags, etc., although there does seem to be a slight trend upwards over the last couple of weeks in Welsh flagwaving :)

Personally, I'd say let the English flags be waved: it's about intent, not whether or not they choose to wave the flag. If they're doing it in an overtly racist or provocative way, then deal with it as with any other act of racism or aggression, otherwise leave them alone.

And I'd hope that the English back in England would be similarly prepared to be tolerant as and when Welsh people might find it necessary to fly their flag...
 
bendeus said:
I wonder how the English would react if, in a hypothetical scenario, a bunch of Germans started driving around England flying German banners from their cars. I'd be interested to know how long the banners, or indeed the cars or their owners would remain unscathed. Under the circumstances I'd say that the Welsh are being models of restraint. As always, I would add.
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I saw a German-registered white van driving along the road on Thursday...with a German flag flying :)

In Pembrokeshire! :confused: Presumably, as a country-which-will-probably-play-England at some point, German flags in Wales would be preferable to English ones? *smirks slyly*
 
pembrokestephen said:
And I'd hope that the English back in England would be similarly prepared to be tolerant as and when Welsh people might find it necessary to fly their flag...
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*falls off chair laughing*
 
RubberBuccaneer said:
I used to go out with an English girl and she was very nice too!

So that's my credentials proved.. who's next?
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Pah, so not only are you toadly evil in your evil Welshness, but you go to England and screw their WOMEN, TOO????

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

:D
 
Ninjaboy said:
nationalism is all about divide and conquer, hating 'the english' for the damage that was done to walses by colonialism is completely fucking stupid, cos the same damage was done to england. the welsh middle classes got rich from it the same as the english middle classes.

nationalism is fucking mindless. it's why the welsh come in for so much stick, because you are so nationalistic and eager to promote nationalism as a social principle now, because the countries who invented nationalism have moved on, and don't mind chucking a few million into a welsh parliment or whatever since it's gonna be the same cunts anyhoo

for me, welsh nationalism came to prominence about the same time as 'the geordie nation', and people go along with it, but completely unsurprisingly it turns out that the same cunts are pulling the strings and still pulling the same shit in a slightly more crafty manner
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Those aren't unreasonable points in themselves, NB, but why is it always the former colonials who decide when it is 'reasonable' to move on? If there was a colonial injustice (and I'm not so well up on Welsh history, but I can assure you there was in Ireland), then imho it falls to the aggrieved party to decide when sufficient reparations etc have been made. It seems to me that it would run the risk of repeating the colonial logic to march in to another country in the Xth century, and then turn round and decide in the 21st Century that the matter was done with and that everyone should move on. Iyswim.

But tbh, as a "foreigner" living in Wales, I've yet to meet a Welsh person who serious *hates* the English.

Apart from ddraig, of course ;)
 
Col_Buendia said:
Those aren't unreasonable points in themselves, NB, but why is it always the former colonials who decide when it is 'reasonable' to move on? If there was a colonial injustice (and I'm not so well up on Welsh history, but I can assure you there was in Ireland), then imho it falls to the aggrieved party to decide when sufficient reparations etc have been made. It seems to me that it would run the risk of repeating the colonial logic to march in to another country in the Xth century, and then turn round and decide in the 21st Century that the matter was done with and that everyone should move on. Iyswim.

But tbh, as a "foreigner" living in Wales, I've yet to meet a Welsh person who serious *hates* the English.

Apart from ddraig, of course ;)
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i just look at it the same way as i look at UKIP. i got nothing against people being aware of their history etc, it's just that it is ultimately just a construct and people shouldnt use it to define their history or as a basis of discrimination

except in football, cos you lot are shite at football, and we are gonna win the world cup :D:D
 
LilMissHissyFit said:
The house opposite ours ( valleys) has a st georges cross on it
It doesnt bother me at all, I wonder whether it will stay there though and if so how long
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I just noticed a car up the terrace from here with two (count 'em, TWO) English flags. As an expat Englishman who's 1/8 Welsh, and therefore has Something To Prove, living in Pembrokeshire, I'm wondering whether to go and torch the car...

:D
 
Within an hour of the kids being home from the local comp one scrutty little tart was stood outside shouting SCUUUMMMMM at the house
pathetic little cow
 
Ninjaboy said:
i just look at it the same way as i look at UKIP. i got nothing against people being aware of their history etc, it's just that it is ultimately just a construct and people shouldnt use it to define their history or as a basis of discrimination
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I take your broad point, and I agree. Nationalism is often a side-show that diverts attention away from the more pressing (class) injustices.
But your comments about Welsh Nationalism are painted with too broad a brush, and ignore the specificity of Welsh Nationalism as a political force made up of competing political strands including a strong socialist internationalist strain that's been around for a long, long, time. You can't equate UKIP with Plaid, for example, who (for all their big problems) do have some pretty good left-wing campaigners.
Equally your earlier comments about all nationalism being "fucking mindless", are just stupid - lots of nationalist movements have been thouroughly rooted in left-wing anti-capitalism (Irish Republicanism was very socialist, and the PLO were avowedly socialist).
except in football, cos you lot are shite at football, and we are gonna win the world cup
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Again - quite wrong. Crouch is a bag of useless shit/great long shite streak of piss, and you couldn't even score against fucking uraguay without the help of their own defender's head.:D :D :D :p
 
pembrokestephen said:
I just noticed a car up the terrace from here with two (count 'em, TWO) English flags. As an expat Englishman who's 1/8 Welsh, and therefore has Something To Prove, living in Pembrokeshire, I'm wondering whether to go and torch the car...
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Pembrokeshire has been mostly Saxon for over a thousand years. "Little England in Wales" innit.
 
llantwit said:
I dunno Colacho - we were pretty involved at lots of levels. Yes, it's true the majority were cannon fodder, but there were plenty of colonial administrators who were welsh, there were a number of welsh slavers, and we shouldn't forget Lloyd George, either.
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Well, wrth gwrs, but without doing a tedious archive search it's hard to say exactly what this level of participation was. That there have been Welsh people involved at the top levels of English dominated British politics is not in doubt, nor is there any doubt about Welsh, Irish and Scots involvement in slavery. But that was never the point. It's like saying that there are a few famous black Colombians- but that doesn't mean that Afrocolombianos aren't systematically discriminated against.

Anyway, we're simply back at the same old arguments that we've been through so many times before. Ninjaboy's right on one thing, and that is that the "nation" and "nationalism" is bullshit, a giant con job that has historically been very successful in covering up class divisions. But he misses out a couple of things, I think, most importantly that English nationalism and Welsh nationalism are not at all comparable in so far as the latter is reactive, defensive, and simply comes from a general pissed offness at being fucked over. "Britishness" was a jingoistic imperial identity that's falling apart (claimed by Unionists in Norn Iron and all sorts of "non-white" inhabitants of Britain), and Englishness is currently (what seems to me) a pointless attempt by the English rump to assert some sort of core identity. And that's the trouble with nationalisms, they're all about telling you what you're supposed to be, about deciding who belongs and who doesn't. If there was a Welsh nation state that sought to tell us all what Welshness was, it would have to opposed, too. As should Welsh racism. I remember getting in a punch up outside Wembley when Wales were playing rugby there because there were a bunch of wankers walking down the street in front of me singing "I'd rather wear a turban than a rose". If that's your identity statement then I'm definitely with any non-racist English rather than such so-called "compatriots". Tossers.

The main point, though, is that it's fucking tedious to be on these boards and get these prejudiced cocksuckers, always the usual fucking suspects, barging in and venting their bile. Because they really do represent the things that continue to piss off those of us who "talk funny". If they can't contribute anything worthwhile then they should take their mindless trolling elsewhere.
 
Rubber Buccaneer in not a racist thug shocker!

Despite having seen a car with an English flag on it yesterday.

How ever did I manage it - I deserve some hugs for that.
 
i agree with colacho that it's the same circular arguments about nationalism going round again, i see ripping it out of wales as banter, just like i got it ripped out me when i moved down south, it's annoying, but they are annoying cunts anyway.....it also gets a lot of attention from girls having an accent, so rough with the smooth etc

and i promise to stop posting on the wales forum as soon as we win the world cup:cool: :cool:
 
Ninjaboy said:
i agree with colacho that it's the same circular arguments about nationalism going round again, i see ripping it out of wales as banter, just like i got it ripped out me when i moved down south, it's annoying, but they are annoying cunts anyway.....it also gets a lot of attention from girls having an accent, so rough with the smooth etc

and i promise to stop posting on the wales forum as soon as we win the world cup:cool: :cool:
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I expect the amount of posts if you win the world cup from Englanders will reach epic proportions :D
 
I have to report that sales of Mars(I believe) bars have plummeted in Aberdeen in some areas at least. Pogofish was in a supermarket and they were about the only sweet left a few days ago.
 
Ninjaboy said:
i agree with colacho that it's the same circular arguments about nationalism going round again, i see ripping it out of wales as banter, just like i got it ripped out me when i moved down south, it's annoying, but they are annoying cunts anyway.....it also gets a lot of attention from girls having an accent, so rough with the smooth etc

and i promise to stop posting on the wales forum as soon as we win the world cup:cool: :cool:
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keep posting, i like having you around
;)
 
i was out with a friend last night who said he'd seen on the news taht in Aberystwyth you can get a £1 off your pint if you bring in a snapped England car flag.

So how much are they to buy and what's the price of a ticket to Aber?
 
RubberBuccaneer said:
i was out with a friend last night who said he'd seen on the news taht in Aberystwyth you can get a £1 off your pint if you bring in a snapped England car flag.

So how much are they to buy and what's the price of a ticket to Aber?
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LOL:D

We were in the claude and it was a healthy mix of english and welsh and the atmos was very nice.........:)
 
As much as it grates me seeing the old enemy's flag everywhere, I'd rather the English waved their flag, than waved a Union Jack. Everyone should have the right to fly their flag, in any country.

I'm more concerned about people from Wales supporting England.
 
lewislewis said:
I'm more concerned about people from Wales supporting England.
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Happy to report that our trip into Abergavenny and subsequent heavy duty rambling in the aforementioned area brought forth zero sightings of the Englisch flag.

*although the footie was on in a tiny pub in the middle of nowhere and the locals were cheering on England.
 
editor said:
Happy to report that our trip into Abergavenny and subsequent heavy duty rambling in the aforementioned area brought forth zero sightings of the Englisch flag.

*although the footie was on in a tiny pub in the middle of nowhere and the locals were cheering on England.
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They'll soon stop cheering when the Saxons get knocked out, hopefully by their German cousins!
 
I know its a copy and paste but I am so glad that at least through these troubled days of Englich flag waving, that Welsh people have not lost their sense of humour. Thank you Eric and Gerald.:D

Taken from the WM today's letters.





SIR - May I through the letters page of your newspaper ask if any of your readers could offer me some guidance regarding the recent announcement by the police that they will arrest Welsh people for derogatory remarks against the English?


In particular I seek advice in the following: When England lose at Rugby, soccer , cricket or any other sport, is it now illegal to:


a) Cheer ecstatically, shout hurrah, hurrah and wave two-fingered salutes in celebration,


b) Propose the traditional toast: "Iechyd da pob un Cymro, twll din pob un Saes"


c) Sing in response to the English anthem: "You can shove your blinkin' chariots up your hurrahs, up your hurrahs!" (to the tune of "She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes, when she comes!")


d) If the above are deemed illegal will the law only be applied to the Welsh or will it be applied to all the other nations who joyfully celebrate any English defeat?


I would appreciate an early response as I'm anxious to be getting on with celebrating any English defeat - but only in a legal way of course.


ERIC JONES


Dennis Place, Bryncethin


SIR - Like many of my countrymen I will be supporting England throughout the 2006 World Cup, for the simple reason that they are the only representatives from the UK left in the tournament.


Hopefully and before I leave this world for a better place I would love to see both Wales and England in some future World Cup competition. And until such a time as they were drawn against each other I would continue to support both sides, as I would support any UK team in the finals. However (and I write this as a proud Ponty-boy, Welshman, British Unionist and staunch European) even though the World Cup has only just started, I am already sick to the teeth of hearing BBC (and ITV) television and radio news presenters referring to the English team as our boys. They are not our boys.


I have already had one nightmare about England wining the World Cup, in which the entire squad to a man (including the coach driver's dog) was knighted by HMQ back in Buck House.


So if anybody from the BBC or ITV news is reading this letter, please support people like me who are supporting YOUR BOYS and just remember that England lost its crown first to the Welsh Tudors, then to the Scots Stuarts, then to the German Hanovers and finally to Phil the Greek. So England is just a region of the UK like the rest of us - so don't you forget it.


GERALD CROCKER


Community Councillor Ynysybwl & Coed-y-cwm, Pontypridd
 
Just passing thru' !

england-car-flag-.jpg
 
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