ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE - what's that all about?

[citygirl]

What?

was that for my benefit? MC5... if it was, my post was in reply to the one above yours, sorry.. I didn't see you'd managed to sneak a post directly between us, and hadn't quoted the post, as I thought I hadn't needed to

 

[Blagsta]

I had to look that up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism



I agree with that. It leads to better societies.

Unfortunately, libertarianism has come to mean the opposite of it's original meaning.

 

[citygirl]

They did speak. They chanted things like 'you dirty muslim bastards' and 'we hate pakis more than you'. Thankfully they didn't act on those sentiments. Are you happy with people like that thretening the rights of minorities to live their lives in peace? Some 'libertarian' you'd be if you did

COOOO-EEEEEEE

I can't PM you back deary, your box is full... and you don't seem to read the community threads

My PM's been typed and ready to go for ages now

 

[rabs25]

They did speak. They chanted things like 'you dirty muslim bastards' and 'we hate pakis more than you'. Thankfully they didn't act on those sentiments. Are you happy with people like that thretening the rights of minorities to live their lives in peace

No but I'm opposed to radical islam. And earlier you called someone

you fucking moron

That's offensive and talking like that is how the problems start.

 

[Spion]

COOOO-EEEEEEE

I can't PM you back deary, your box is full... and you don't seem to read the community threads

My PM's been typed and ready to go for ages now

I've emptied it

 

[citygirl]

Phew, thought i was gunna have to cross me legs forever lol

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

No but I'm opposed to radical islam. And earlier you called someone

Thing is, the way to oppose radical islam isn't to support people like the EDL, it's to endorse, back and support people from within Islam who do speak out against the traditionalists/fundamentalists and who in their own ways have very progressive ideas about it - people like Yasmin Alibhai Brown, who these EDL/BNP types hate as much as anyone else they hate, yet who have also had death threats from Muslims for having progressive ideas towards their own faith or for marrying non-muslim men.

That's how we tackle radical islam. These EDL types just look like a bunch of thugs.

 

[tbaldwin]

These EDL types just look like a bunch of thugs.

They look a bit like me but nowhere near as good looking to be fair....Not that we should judge anyone by appearances obviously....

 

[citygirl]

obviously

cus that would be silly, wouldn't it?

 

[audiotech]

was that for my benefit? MC5... if it was, my post was in reply to the one above yours, sorry.. I didn't see you'd managed to sneak a post directly between us, and hadn't quoted the post, as I thought I hadn't needed to

no problem citygirl.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Does nobody else agree that the main thing is to support as much as possible the genuinely moderate-minded Muslims? The ones who believe that following the five pillars and so on is the most important thing and that the sexism and homophobia ought to go the same way it mostly has in other religions?

And that people like that will not be favoured by people like the EDL?

(I Know they are probably regarded as Uncle Toms by some strict Muslims)

 

[rabs25]

Does nobody else agree that the main thing is to support as much as possible the genuinely moderate-minded Muslims? The ones who believe that following the five pillars and so on is the most important thing and that the sexism and homophobia ought to go the same way it mostly has in other religions?

Good point, I should really support them and the EDL. Radicals cant be reasoned with.

Myth 1: The Islamists/BNP arguments can be defeated through rational argument

Myth 2: Persecution will only feed the Islamists/BNP victim mentality

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/07/bnp-question-time


Politics is war without bloodshed and in a war you need all your allies.

 

[tbaldwin]

Politics is war without bloodshed and in a war you need all your allies.

Not sure its without bloodshed.

I reckon that most people would like a bit less bloodshed and less inequality.

Sadly though we still live in a world where negative irrational ideas have a hold on millions of people.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Good point, I should really support them and the EDL. Radicals cant be reasoned with.

Myth 1: The Islamists/BNP arguments can be defeated through rational argument

Myth 2: Persecution will only feed the Islamists/BNP victim mentality

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/07/bnp-question-time


Politics is war without bloodshed and in a war you need all your allies.

But the EDL despise all Muslims no matter how genuinely moderate they are... They end up turning the ones who are in favour of liberalising the religions against us and make them more hardline.

 

[cantsin]

I've not decided to join or not. I'm very interested in them though. If they are really anti racist and pro women's and gays rights and protest peacefully against radical Islam then I fully support them. Moderate Islam I've no problem with. Religion is a private thing between a man and his God. Radical Islam wants to put it in the public sphere and inflict it on secular people.


Please don't anyone go spinning that I'm a BNP Fascist rubbish. The BNP is the communist party with racism and sexism. They cannot ever form an effective government. Their leader seems a very effective politician but he's the only one in the party. The policies are mostly impractical and some are very offensive to me. I believe in small government and the inalienable rights of man. The BNP wants to increase the sphere of government influence and restrict these rights to members of the UK. This is wrong. I support their view on restricting immigration. That is all.


On the other hand the UAF are a bunch of thugs. If someone doesn't agree with them they don't allow them to speak. They are censoring the EDL on the basis they think its racist. I believe in free speech. The UAF does not.

Radical Islam is not a race. Its a stupid and dangerous idea.

And no I don't support Israel killing people in Palestine. Or vice versa.

daft

 

[citygirl]

Unfortunately... that's what they're playing on....

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Just ask them what they think of Yasmin Alibhai Brown or someone like that and you'll soon see

 

[citygirl]

They'd love her, she hates the burqa

 

[rabs25]

In my book she's ok as regards her views on radical muslims. I'm impressed with her.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...whod-be-female-under-islamic-law-1678549.html

I am a Muslim woman and, like my late mother, free, independent, sensuous, educated, liberal, contrary and confrontational when provoked, both feminine and feminist. I style and colour my hair, wear lovely things and perfumes, appear on public platforms with men who are not related to me, shake their hands, embrace some I know well, take care of my family.

I defend Muslims persecuted by their enemies and their own kith and kin. I pray, fast, give to charity and try to be a decent human being. I also drink wine and do not lie about that, unlike so many other "good" Muslims. I am the kind of Muslim woman who maddens reactionary Muslim men and their asinine female followers. What a badge of honour.

Female oppression in Islamic countries is manifestly getting worse. Islam, as practiced by millions today, has lost its compassion and integrity and is entering one of the darkest of dark ages.

Female oppression in Islamic countries is manifestly getting worse. Islam, as practiced by millions today, has lost its compassion and integrity and is entering one of the darkest of dark ages. Here is this month's short list of unbearable stories (imagine how many more there are which will never be known):

Iranian painter Delara Darabi, only 22 and in prison since she was 17, accused of murdering an elderly relative, was hanged last week even though she had been given a temporary stay of execution by the chief justice of the country. She phoned her mother on the day of her hanging to beg for help and the phone was snatched by a prison official who told them: "We will easily execute your daughter and there's nothing you can do about it." Her paintings reveal the cruelty to which she was subjected.

Meanwhile Roxana Saberi, a 32- year-old broadcast journalist whose father is Iranian, is incarcerated in Tehran's Evin prison, accused of spying for the US. She denies this and says she has been framed because she was seen buying a bottle of wine. This intelligent, beautiful and defiant woman is on hunger strike. Over in Saudi Arabia, an eight-year-old child has just divorced a 50-year-old man. Her father, no doubt a very devout man, sold his daughter for about £9,000.

I have been reading Disfigured, the story of Rania Al-Baz, a Saudi TV anchor, the first woman to have such a job, who was so badly beaten up by her abusive husband that she had to have 13 operations to re-make her once gorgeous face. Domestic violence destroys females in all countries, but in Muslim states, it is validated by laws and values. As Al-Baz writes, "It is appalling to realise that a woman cannot walk down the street without men staring at her openly. For them she is nothing but a body without a mind, something that moves and does not think. Women are banned from studying law, from civil engineering and from the sacrosanct area of oil."

Small optimistic signs do periodically appear in this harsh desert, says Quanta A Ahmed, a doctor who worked in Saudi Arabia and then wrote her account, In the Land of Invisible Women. She describes the love she finds between some husbands and wives, idealists who think better rights will come one day.

That faith in the future is echoed by Norah al-Faiz, the Deputy Minister for Women's Education, chosen in this week's Time magazine list of the world's most influential people. They hope because they must, I guess, even though they can see the brute forces lining up on the horizon ready to crush them by any means necessary. This country has spread its anti-female Wahabi Islam across the globe, its second most important export after oil.

In Afghanistan Ayman Udas was a singer and songwriter who wore lipstick and appeared on TV, defying her family. She was a divorced mother of two who had remarried. Ten days after this she was shot dead, allegedly by her brothers, who must think they are upright moral upholders with places reserved in paradise. In March President Karzai gave monstrous tribal leaders what they demanded, absolute control over wives by husbands and the right to rape them on the marital bed. Protests by brave women in that country and international outrage has forced him to step back from this commitment but there is concern that he is too weak to hold out, and once again women will become the personal and political playthings of men.

Let's to Pakistan then shall we, the country that once elected a woman head of state. The divinely beautiful Swat Valley has, for reasons of political expediency, been handed over to the Taliban, and there they have blown up over a hundred schools for girls and regularly flog young females on the streets. The girls are shrouded and forbidden to scream because the female voice has the potential to arouse desire. Or pity perhaps.

I am aware that my words will help confirm the pernicious prejudices that fester in the minds of those who despise Islam. Yet to conceal or excuse the violations would be to condone and encourage them. There have been enlightened times when some Muslim civilisations honoured and cherished females. This is not one of them. Across the West – for a host of reasons – millions of Muslims are embracing backward practices. In the UK young girls – some so young that they are still in push chairs – are covered up in hijabs. Disgracefully, there are always vocal Muslim women who seek to justify honour killings, forced marriages, inequality, polygamy and childhood betrothals. Why are large numbers of Muslim men so terrorised by the female body and spirit? Why do Muslim women encourage this savage paranoia?

I look out of my study at the common and see a wife fully burkaed on a sunny day. She sits still. Her children and husband run around, laughing, playing cricket. She sits still, dead, buried, a ghost. She is complicit in her own degradation, as are countless others. Their acquiescence in a free democracy is a crime against their sisters who have no such choices in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Al-Baz says: "I am a disruptive presence because I give women ideas." Me too. To transgress against diehard obscurantists and their unholy rules is an inescapable sacred duty. Yet how pathetic that sounds. Progressive believers tilt at windmills driven by ferocious winds of self-righteousness. Our arms and legs weaken and we are brought to our knees. I fear there is only worse to come.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

They'd love her, she hates the burqa

Well the BNP lot absolutely loathe her just as much as they hate any other nonwhites so maybe there is a slight difference in that case

 

[citygirl]

yes, but some of these people aren't *just* BNP though, to be fair... they might even be a slightly more intelligent type of racist... but still racist.. to whatever degree suits their aims

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I would contend that someone who is completely happy with all races of people living here but with the condition say that there's a reasonable level of integration and that things like the burqua are banned or even just that it's discouraged are not actually at all racist. That's a fundamental tautology on the part of the left. Most other countries are like that anyway. They can't all be racist. After all, Britain's the most racist country, according to some people...

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

yes, but some of these people aren't *just* BNP though, to be fair... they might even be a slightly more intelligent type of racist... but still racist.. to whatever degree suits their aims

Sorry, nobody who likes Yasmin Alibhai Brown could possibly be a racist. That's a scientific impossibility. I 've seen the real racist fascist types, they get into a a real lather about her being 'anti British' etc.

 

[citygirl]

I'd say she was quite right-winged herself, reading some of her stuff. Just ripe for joining the EDL and the holding up of one of those banners. I don't believe that all women (as she suggests) are wearing the burqa or hijab because of the reasons she states... she doesn't know all of the Muslim women, or their reasons for wearing it, either. She sounds like she has put herself forward as some kind of "spokeswoman", or champion for Muslim women... It is probably very true to say that the more conservative Muslim countries do take their religion very seriously, and unfortunately treat their women as lower class citizens... but then there's an awful lot of that goes on in the "British" culture aswell, you know... Not *all* Muslim women in this country, or even the stricter Muslim countries, wear the burqa, hijab, or niqab for those reasons, some actually do wear them for their own reasons. I know many women who merely choose to wear it, not feel compelled, they converse in the normal way, take part in normal everyday life with their children, I can see their eyes and have no problems in finding communication with the ones who wear the veil...But reading that, one could imagine that all Islamic women are downtrodden under the radicalism of it all, and have no "voice" of their own... that might very well be the case with some.. but I believe it's far from the amount she makes it out to be... and by doing this, she plays right into their hands... do you not think?

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Oh bollocks, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on a forum.

She's the archetypal libby luvvie islington trendy lefty...

 

[citygirl]

If you say so.. we obviously read things very differently

 

[Jeff Robinson]

By Allah, these EDL fash thickos are the most deluded self aggrandising ccunts I've ever witnessed:



What a bunch of losers.

 

[DeepStoat]

By Allah, these EDL fash thickos are the most deluded self aggrandising ccunts I've ever witnessed:



What a bunch of losers.

Jesus fucking wept

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

If you say so.. we obviously read things very differently

Seriously, while at times she is a little too right on, generally i admire the fact that she also challenges conservatism in her own background.

i think you're suffering severe cultural relativism if you think that only one kind of bigotry can be challenged.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Jesus fucking wept

Fucking hell. "in the spirit of St George" LOL - Palestinian. What a bunch of tards. That piece of raw ignorance will certainly find a way into a statement I'm writing

"The day of reckoning" proves an intent to provoke.

The muppets will be there in some number from the north of the city, loads of them will probably be Irish descendants.

We will outnumber them. Big big time. I don't want aggro, but there is no way on Allah / Gods earth we can let these filth be on the streets unopposed.

I hope the likes of the Daily Express are pleased that all their years of stirring hate have finally paid off.