ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE - what's that all about?

[tbaldwin]

Oooooook... well, that sorta goes back a bit.. and on a bit... but i don't think i need to read all of it to be sure of my reply to you...but thanks for taking the time to find that for me

Is that just a Muslim thing though?.... cus, isn't Islam pretty much the same as most religions, in that sense?...For instance, Christianity is like a parent religion, whereas CofE and Catholicism are the "sects"... and I'm preeeeeetty certain that a devout Catholic wouldn't do well to be marrying an Atheist, for example... they also happen to have very big differences in their "beliefs".. and where and how they worship...so it makes sense that they don't all worship in the same places...

and just as a side issue... you use the word "racial" segregation, when surely, you mean religious? or cultural?.... after all, by your own definition... race is merely about colour of skin...

I think that the issues of why many pakistani muslims would not marry african muslims are racial not cultural. They look down on people based on the colour of their skin. And many arabs`look down on them.

 

[citygirl]

I rather thunk it might be more down to class, or caste, tbh...

 

[citygirl]

The comments underneath that video are funnier than the video itself though...

amongst the insults, ignorance and crap spelling is this peach of a gem pearler...

"I'm looking for kitten videos and I think I'm lost - can anyone direct me to some kitten videos?"

 

[behemoth]

AFAIK, religous courts still have to obey the laws of the land.

Is that why they hand out illegal judgements as a matter of course? Either everyone is equal in the eyes of the law or they aren't. You can't have it both ways, and you can't have two court systems working on different principles.

 

[DotCommunist]

Last time I was up before the magistrate I swore on the bible. And it's fair to argue that judeo-christian morality underpins our nominally secular courts (plural, cos there's lots of different kinds of courts)

 

[Blagsta]

Is that why they hand out illegal judgements as a matter of course? Either everyone is equal in the eyes of the law or they aren't. You can't have it both ways, and you can't have two court systems working on different principles.

Do they? I have no idea tbh.

 

[smokedout]

Is that why they hand out illegal judgements as a matter of course? Either everyone is equal in the eyes of the law or they aren't. You can't have it both ways, and you can't have two court systems working on different principles.

we already do, its called the beth din

 

[behemoth]

Do they? I have no idea tbh.

You have no idea what judgements are handed out but still think it's OK.

 

[Blagsta]

You have no idea what judgements are handed out but still think it's OK.

If you can provide me with something where I can find out, I'm all ears.

 

[purplex]

About the way most mosques in the UK serve distinct groups eg you have mosques for Blacks,Turks,Arabs and Pakistanis.

I raised this issue with a muslim last week and his response was that in the eyes of allah all muslims are the same, many smaller towns have only a single mosque so there is no choice but to share it.

 

[kyser_soze]

As well as that though, I think some people have forgotten why "racism" is bad. It's because it's applying unwarranted prejudices to a large group of people based not on what they have done, but on the basis of some other irrelevant characteristic. Even if this lot really *were* just about "Muslims" as opposed to it really meaning "Asians" (and some will be) it's still just as bad.

You forgot the clause that says 'Depending on the power relationship between the two parties, it is possible to say 'All Americans are ignorant fat bastards' and not be racist, and say 'All Africans are ignorant fat bastards' and be racist.

FWIW I don't think that there should be any religious courts like the Beth Din, Sharia or whatever the Anglican equivalent is. One set of secular laws for all (and if that means disestablishing the CofE so much the better); the commerce argument is bollocks because if there are specific relgious rules regarding contracts they can either be observed independently, or incorporated into wider commercial law.

 

[audiotech]

An EDL 'protest' as such, this time in London against the 'Quds Day' march organised by the Islamic Human Rights Commission, with the support of Stop the War and other groups. A small number of anti-fascists, reportedly 40 or so in total, gathered in Trafalgar Square Sunday.

According to this report, "EDL cadres" "swaggered" about, "smirking"?

The rest of it reads like an episode from 'International Rescue'.

 

[audiotech]

Here we go, some EDL supporters vent their real thoughts in this video.

 

[Spion]

Here we go, some EDL supporters vent their real thoughts in this video.

Blimey

 

[citygirl]

not racist... my arse

 

[sonny61]

An EDL 'protest' as such, this time in London against the 'Quds Day' march organised by the Islamic Human Rights Commission, with the support of Stop the War and other groups. A small number of anti-fascists, reportedly 40 or so in total, gathered in Trafalgar Square Sunday.

According to this report, "EDL cadres" "swaggered" about, "smirking"?

The rest of it reads like an episode from 'International Rescue'.

Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
Notice the Jamaica flag and the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.

 

[Spion]

Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
Notice the Jamaica flag and the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.

How wrong can one post be? You're not even commenting on the right video, you fucking moron

 

[cantsin]

Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
Notice the Jamaica flag and the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.

EDl were humilated at Harrow, did fuck all at Trafalgar sqaure , battered in Bmham , and you're on here calling the oppo pussies...you should turn up and show your suport for your boys sometime, they look like they need another keyboard hero

 

[rabs25]

I've not decided to join or not. I'm very interested in them though. If they are really anti racist and pro women's and gays rights and protest peacefully against radical Islam then I fully support them. Moderate Islam I've no problem with. Religion is a private thing between a man and his God. Radical Islam wants to put it in the public sphere and inflict it on secular people.


Please don't anyone go spinning that I'm a BNP Fascist rubbish. The BNP is the communist party with racism and sexism. They cannot ever form an effective government. Their leader seems a very effective politician but he's the only one in the party. The policies are mostly impractical and some are very offensive to me. I believe in small government and the inalienable rights of man. The BNP wants to increase the sphere of government influence and restrict these rights to members of the UK. This is wrong. I support their view on restricting immigration. That is all.


On the other hand the UAF are a bunch of thugs. If someone doesn't agree with them they don't allow them to speak. They are censoring the EDL on the basis they think its racist. I believe in free speech. The UAF does not.

Radical Islam is not a race. Its a stupid and dangerous idea.

And no I don't support Israel killing people in Palestine. Or vice versa.

 

[Davo1]

I believe in small government and the inalienable rights of man.

Who are you again? Thomas Jefferson?

 

[rabs25]

Who are you again? Thomas Jefferson?

It was a brilliant idea. It's just as valid today as it was then. Thomas Paine popularised it in his pamphlets . Jeffersons genus was implementing it. He let himself down on slavery though. He was an abolitionist but kept slaves. IMO: He should not have. I don't know the full situation though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine

IMO: good views on religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke

 

[tbaldwin]

I've not decided to join or not. I'm very interested in them though. If they are really anti racist and pro women's and gays rights and protest peacefully against radical Islam then I fully support them. Moderate Islam I've no problem with. Religion is a private thing between a man and his God. Radical Islam wants to put it in the public sphere and inflict it on secular people.

QUOTE]

Did you hear their spokesperson being interviewed on radio 5 at the weekend?
He came across as a bit less rabid than the plank of a presenter.

Why do you find them interesting rabs?
Must admit i find them a bit interesting but i think the reaction to them from some people has been more interesting!

I would be interested to see you expand on your politics a bit more. Would i be right in thinking they would be broadly libertarian?

 

[Davo1]

Thomas Jefferson (Tom Paines bestest chum) on 'immigration':

They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass... If they come of themselves, they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship: but I doubt the expediency of inviting them by extraordinary encouragements." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.VIII, 1782. ME 2:118

'Roots'. 'Homogeneity'. 'BNP'. 'EDL'.

I quite like a 'distracted mass' myself.

 

[rabs25]

I had to look that up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

"libertarianism holds that agents initially fully own themselves and have moral powers to acquire property rights in external things under certain conditions." It notes that libertarianism is not a “right-wing” doctrine because of its opposition to laws restricting adult consensual sexual relationships and drug use, and its opposition to imposing religious views or practices and compulsory military service.

I agree with that. It leads to better societies.

 

[rabs25]

Thomas Jefferson (Tom Paines bestest chum) on 'immigration':



'Roots'. 'Homogeneity'. 'BNP'. 'EDL'.

I quite like a 'distracted mass' myself.

He was not right on everything. I wasn't claiming he had some sort of infallibility. The distracted mass rings true though. Although IMO it's a source of creativity and progress. And the example shows that there are contradictions in the best people. The EDL is like that. The aim is good but it has many contradictions.

 

[audiotech]

Yes your right, it does show the anti fascists in a bad light. Attacking a lone bloke on his own for daring to have an opinion they don't share.
The white lefties though do appear to be a bunch of pussies compared to the young Muslims who are a serious street fighting force.
Notice the Jamaica flag and the Indian flag on the EDL Bus?
Not a great video for anti fascists, shows them more of a bunch of bigots than the wanker shouting ''paki'' on the bus.

Martin Smith was defending well I thought.

I believe the flags were protection against members of firms who are black and to show solidarity with Hindu nationalists the BJP.

Not a great video for the dope seig heiling to type as he got on the bus and the one down the alley doing the same, who along with his mates, were making a quick exit.

The smartly dressed man, reportedly a BNP councillor, who appeared briefly going on about the "anti-nazi anarchist league" seemed to have egg on his suit.

 

[citygirl]

And it surely is those "contradictions" that has got so many peoples backs up, is it not?....

 

[audiotech]

What?

 

[Spion]

On the other hand the UAF are a bunch of thugs. If someone doesn't agree with them they don't allow them to speak.

They did speak. They chanted things like 'you dirty muslim bastards' and 'we hate pakis more than you'. Thankfully they didn't act on those sentiments. Are you happy with people like that thretening the rights of minorities to live their lives in peace? Some 'libertarian' you'd be if you did

 

[sonny61]

Martin Smith was defending well I thought.

I believe the flags were protection against members of firms who are black and to show solidarity with Hindu nationalists the BJP.

Not a great video for the dope seig heiling to type as he got on the bus and the one down the alley doing the same, who along with his mates, were making a quick exit.

The smartly dressed man, reportedly a BNP councillor, who appeared briefly going on about the "anti-nazi anarchist league" seemed to have egg on his suit.

The bloke was a Tory councillor, Birmingham does not have any BNP councillors.

This is the danger of how this could end, it is now out of the hands of the SWP/UAF, the Muslims are in charge.
There will be more EDL protests, they are very small in numbers so the police can easy protect them. Large numbers of Muslims turn up for each protest, and then follows the usual confrontation with the police. Followed by pictures in the media of young Muslims throwing missiles at the police, just what the BNP love. Maybe more pictures of Muslims kicking lone white males on the floor, making the BNP even more happy.

The real danger is that in one of these confrontations with the police a Muslim could be badly hurt or killed. Thinking of a Muslim being knocked down while being chased by the police. All one killed or badly injured in a direct confrontation with the police.

Then think not of Bradford type riots of 2001. Think more of Belfast 1969, with Muslim riots in Cities all over the UK.
It does not matter what the SWP/UAF think anymore they are not in control. They have lit the torch paper, it is a question now of whether it goes out or explodes.