Poo Flakes
Active Member
What cards? All the major sectors of the economy are state owned.
Egypt anti-government protests grow
- Thread starter stuff_it
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So non-capitalist then right?
Cards means tell me why you've avoided answering my questions for 6 hours.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Poo Flakes
Active Member
If you want a simplistic answer then they clearly represented the interests of capitalists. So no they are not anti-capitalist.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
Link does not tell me who owns it.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
In energy both dams and oil - hardly any gas - lots of well qualified engineers were Islamists they were appointed upwards during the later half of the Mubarak era, some have reached the top.
I can dig some stuff out to check out properly but the Egyptian Electricity Holding Company which is state owned and the unmbrella for all electricity generation and supply has lost of subsidiaries that act as free firms borrowing and financing from beyond the state - (hence the Islamic sector investors) - but with state limits on prices. The IMF wants those limits to be modified.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So they are capitalist? The accumulation of capital through the use of wage labour is capitalist? Let's be clear. If so, why have you danced around this question for half a day? The Muslim bothers are capitalist - right? If they're notthen say that they are not.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
No, a standard capitalist would simply be an investor of capital or those with sufficient capital to invest.
I am not sure it is fair to describe the muslim brotherhood movement as one which has been designed to look out for capitalist interests. I imagine that you believe that it is fair to do so?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why does it matter why the brotherhood has been designed? What does it do? Is it capitalist. You can't answer yes, it is capitalists in how it personally is funded and in the social relations it enforces, encourages and imposes. Put your cards on the table.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
Interesting, I thought you would have approached it a different way. That the islamists are enforcing islamic social relations to better enforce capitalism. Not sure I agree with that. Why do you think they tried to implement a islamic constitution? Why disenfrachise women from the labour force?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Someone who can't say the MB are pro-capitalist but that the army are the capitalists.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
1 It is true that TAQA Arabia is not entirely Islamic - it started out as not Islamist at all, but Islamist firms did invest heavily in it and have secured positions within it. So it was able to win a number of contracts from the government over the past year.
2 More generally here is the typical Brotherhood capitalist in fact it's number two figure mentioned already up the thread urging resistance to the coup. The important thing about him are the banks and capital firms which invest elsewhere to sustain the firms that are already Islamic and those that can be won over to the Islamic side.
There's been some splits because Noor also has its business wing which overlaps heavily but has separate aspects too I think.
Khairat Al Shater, a son of a local prominent merchant, returned to Egypt from the Gulf in 1986 and co-founded an IT company with Hassan Malak, another Muslim Brotherhood businessman. In the late 1980s, Al Shater started businesses in household appliances, textiles and furniture with branches in shopping malls in Cairo. He also dealt in farming products and animal husbandry. His business expanded to include cars and land. He also became a member on the boards of several private banks and enterprises.
After Hosni Mubarak’s ouster, Al Shater and his partners launched Zad, a series of retail supermarkets, now having 25 outlets in Cairo and other Egyptian cities.
The extent of Al Shater’s wealth is not known. Local media reports have estimated it at around $20 billion. In a TV interview, Al Shater denied that his business is linked to the Brotherhood’s finances. “All my business is done with my money,” he said. Al Shater is a strong advocate of the free market.
2 More generally here is the typical Brotherhood capitalist in fact it's number two figure mentioned already up the thread urging resistance to the coup. The important thing about him are the banks and capital firms which invest elsewhere to sustain the firms that are already Islamic and those that can be won over to the Islamic side.
There's been some splits because Noor also has its business wing which overlaps heavily but has separate aspects too I think.
Khairat Al Shater, a son of a local prominent merchant, returned to Egypt from the Gulf in 1986 and co-founded an IT company with Hassan Malak, another Muslim Brotherhood businessman. In the late 1980s, Al Shater started businesses in household appliances, textiles and furniture with branches in shopping malls in Cairo. He also dealt in farming products and animal husbandry. His business expanded to include cars and land. He also became a member on the boards of several private banks and enterprises.
After Hosni Mubarak’s ouster, Al Shater and his partners launched Zad, a series of retail supermarkets, now having 25 outlets in Cairo and other Egyptian cities.
The extent of Al Shater’s wealth is not known. Local media reports have estimated it at around $20 billion. In a TV interview, Al Shater denied that his business is linked to the Brotherhood’s finances. “All my business is done with my money,” he said. Al Shater is a strong advocate of the free market.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
They did no such thing.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
Who else does the military represent? A crusty old guard of generals drawing state pensions?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why not just be honest and open?
Poo Flakes
Active Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/15/muslim-brotherhood-backlash-un-womens-rights
Is he suspected of being a front for the muslim brotherhood?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
wtf? I thought this person couldn't get any more pointless. That's it.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
wtf..
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Worth also remembering which I'd forgotten is how in the Mubarak era the Brotherhood and the military cooperated in business such as providing the military's computing and doing renovations and even construction, which was fine for both parties until the Brotherhood firms grew too big and started upset the Mubarak patronage system/part of the economy leading to the Salsabil case in the 1990s. From a good summary bio of the top figures here
Hassan Malek
Born: August 20, 1958
Position: Chair of the government’s new business development council
Education: B.A. from Alexandria University’s College of Commerce (1980)
Occupation: Businessman
Born into a Muslim Brotherhood family and named after MB founder Hassan al-Banna, Malek joined the organization at a young age. He was politicized following the January 1977 Bread Riots and strongly opposed Egypt’s 1978 peace treaty with Israel. That year, he befriended current Brotherhood deputy supreme guide Khairat al-Shater while studying at Alexandria University, where Malek was a student union leader.
In 1983, Malek and Shater cofounded one of Egypt’s first software companies, Salsabil, which signed the Egyptian military as one of its clients. The company made them both wealthy, increasing their influence within the Brotherhood. But in 1992, the Mubarak regime fabricated a case against Salsabil to target the MB’s finances. As a result, the company was shut down, more than 200 workers were laid off, and both Malek and Shater were imprisoned for a year without charges. Following his release, Malek resumed his business activities, establishing Malek Trade and investing in the Turkish furniture company Istikbal, among others. He also opened import/export deals in more than ten countries; four of his seven children help him run his factories.
The regime targeted Malek again in 2007, charging him with money laundering and funding a terrorist organization. The government froze his assets, and Malek served his prison sentence alongside Shater until both were released in March 2011 following Mubarak’s ouster. In March 2012, Malek established the Egyptian Business Development Association (EBDA), whose board of directors includes many Muslim Brothers. In July 2012, President Morsi appointed Malek to chair a new business development council for advising the president on attracting international investment.
Istikbal furniture itself is a key firm of the Boydak conglomerate group lots of investments all over the place and owning stuff from steel, steel fittings, textiles, electrical machinery, paints and investing in probably dozens of other firms.
It is a very subtle backer of Turkey's soft Islamist government, none of the stuff really comes out in the open because the parliamentary questions are only accepted at the discretion of the parliament ie governing AKP party. The owner is a Kayseri businessman a so called Anatolian tiger which started its operations in the free trade zones of central Anatolia as decreed by the post 1980 coup military and heavily military dominated Turgut Ozal era.
Hassan Malek
Born: August 20, 1958
Position: Chair of the government’s new business development council
Education: B.A. from Alexandria University’s College of Commerce (1980)
Occupation: Businessman
Born into a Muslim Brotherhood family and named after MB founder Hassan al-Banna, Malek joined the organization at a young age. He was politicized following the January 1977 Bread Riots and strongly opposed Egypt’s 1978 peace treaty with Israel. That year, he befriended current Brotherhood deputy supreme guide Khairat al-Shater while studying at Alexandria University, where Malek was a student union leader.
In 1983, Malek and Shater cofounded one of Egypt’s first software companies, Salsabil, which signed the Egyptian military as one of its clients. The company made them both wealthy, increasing their influence within the Brotherhood. But in 1992, the Mubarak regime fabricated a case against Salsabil to target the MB’s finances. As a result, the company was shut down, more than 200 workers were laid off, and both Malek and Shater were imprisoned for a year without charges. Following his release, Malek resumed his business activities, establishing Malek Trade and investing in the Turkish furniture company Istikbal, among others. He also opened import/export deals in more than ten countries; four of his seven children help him run his factories.
The regime targeted Malek again in 2007, charging him with money laundering and funding a terrorist organization. The government froze his assets, and Malek served his prison sentence alongside Shater until both were released in March 2011 following Mubarak’s ouster. In March 2012, Malek established the Egyptian Business Development Association (EBDA), whose board of directors includes many Muslim Brothers. In July 2012, President Morsi appointed Malek to chair a new business development council for advising the president on attracting international investment.
Istikbal furniture itself is a key firm of the Boydak conglomerate group lots of investments all over the place and owning stuff from steel, steel fittings, textiles, electrical machinery, paints and investing in probably dozens of other firms.
It is a very subtle backer of Turkey's soft Islamist government, none of the stuff really comes out in the open because the parliamentary questions are only accepted at the discretion of the parliament ie governing AKP party. The owner is a Kayseri businessman a so called Anatolian tiger which started its operations in the free trade zones of central Anatolia as decreed by the post 1980 coup military and heavily military dominated Turgut Ozal era.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
When you says brotherhood firms, are these controlled by the brotherhood via a frontman (effectively shovelling funds into the organisation and doing its bidding (like setting up TV channels to preach islam) or controlled by individuals affiliated to the movement?
elbows
Well-Known Member
Prematurely pondering the possibility that El-Baradei was only stated to be the new PM in order to let Islamists get upset. And then the new government get to demonstrate their inclusive credentials by 'listening to the islamists' and not appointing El Blah blah after all. Also a way to draw the MB/FJP back into the process by showing them whats at stake if they refuse to engage.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
It's a high-falutin UN document, which only someone like Michele Bachelet could big up as being of significance. After all, the UN committed itself to achieving female-male equality "within ten years" back in 1975 with the decade of the woman.
If we look at the Brotherhood statement it states in the whole thing just
about women at work applying only to wives. Its outlook seems to be that husbands should be consulted when the wife works in a particular place. Not at all that husbands revoke this right as a matter of course.
It's generally in favour of EITHER traditional family structures OR Brotherhood jemaat schools and facilities - because these reproduce its religious-origined adherents for the future (unlike mixed-gender individual-based flatshares with less get together for prayers led by dad before food etc)
It doesn't deny women working provided that the family is also maintained so it's totally not doing what you said.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Blimey what kind of a question is this;- he is the Deputy Supreme Guide as I mentioned when I used the shorthand number two.
He (and his firms) has been a mainstay for it for decades.
Then
Now
teqniq
DisMembered
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
The leaders and investors of the firms are either members or in an advantageous symbiotic relationship with the Brotherhood in all sorts of ways.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Having watched the above i was hoping not, but apparently...
Apparently what? They throw off two youngsters from that tower where they are hiding, when they crash land on the roof below you can see one person very visibly kick the non-moving body of the second.
teqniq
DisMembered
Well yes but just because they are not moving doesn't mean they're dead - could be unconscious. Unfortunately not though, too much optimism on my part I suppose.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
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