Egypt anti-government protests grow

[Divisive Cotton]

the muslim brotherhood and the salalfists had massive amounts of funding from elsewhere in the middle east. I'm sure under the current climate in the Middle East they would have polled well anyway but having a massive fighting fund is undoubtedly a boon when fighting an election in such a massive, populous country

 

[scooter]

It does make one concerned however that all the reassurances we heard during the uprisings that they were secular in nature now ring a bit hollow

 

[butchersapron]

It does make one concerned however that all the reassurances we heard during the uprisings that they were secular in nature now ring a bit hollow

As i recall people said that the uprising wasn't islamist (it wasn't) and that if it was directed into electoral/institutional channels then the MB's would be the main beneficiaries (they are).

 

[elbows]

It does make one concerned however that all the reassurances we heard during the uprisings that they were secular in nature now ring a bit hollow

Such reassurances were not hollow, but only genuinely covered limited ground and cannot be stretched so far as to assume that religion would have no place in politics in that part of the world. And many of the reassurances were only laid on so thick in the first place because we just had a decade of pretty intense building up of the islamist bogeyman as the wests natural enemy and the biggest threat. Pragmatism in the western nations national interest dictates that such crude propaganda needs to be dropped quickly when things are in flux and we may end up with new allegiances when the dust settles.

The uprisings themselves were pretty broad based, and religion was not centre stage but that tells us little about what happens later. Given the beliefs of large chunks of the population, and the fact that most of the regimes people were struggling to overthrown were about as secular as you are likely to get in the region, the reality of what comes from democratic choice in the region at this stage should not be a surprise.

If its any consolation many of the secular revolutionary forces at work are not exactly likely to provide decent outcomes for the masses either, at least at this point. For example some of them are total lovers of free markets. The secular strugglers that we might like, for example those who place the workers struggle centre-stage, face not only the same problems as us in terms of not having wide enough popular support at the moment. They also suffer from the fact that the original root flavour of the outgoing regimes tended to be of the socialist nationalist variety, and ideologies that point in the same general direction are likely to be tarred with the hated regime brush.

So although the religious aspects and the refusal of the old regimes to die completely are big problems for the revolutionaries in countries such as Egypt, they also suffer from exactly the same problem as people in any other part of the world in this era - we are bloody sick of the status quo but finding an alternative that people can get behind without cynicism based on past failings is rather tricky. A distinct lack of ideological wiggle-room, due in no small part to the suffocating limitations that media such as television and radio has managed to place on our sense of reality and supposed spectrum of legitimate possibilities.

 

[scooter]

Thanks for replies. I guess the time to start worrying is when they try to cling onto power. As long as they hold free, fair, secret elections with universal suffrage every 5 years it doesn't matter who is in power coz they can always be gotten rid of.

 

[albionism]

http://thedailynewsegypt.com/egypt/egyptian-anarchists-seek-self-governed-society.html

 

[elbows]

That article is quite entertaining on a number of levels

 

[elbows]

Looks like the military are getting ready for the anniversary by releasing some prisoners and trying to have some state-sponsored anniversary celebrations:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/22/egypt-pardons-blogger-anniversary-protests

 

[rover07]

Muslim Brotherhood sweeps to victory in democratic elections!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16665748

Surprised this hasn't been reported on TV. The overthrow of Mubarak was headline news.

 

[teqniq]

It's got to be the only time I've heard of a holiday resort being taken hostage:

A squad of Egyptian Bedouin on Sunday took control of a resort complex in Sinai, for which they are demanding a ransom of four million Egyptian pounds (approximately $662 million).

According to reports by Egyptian media, the squad, armed with automatic weapons, took hold of "Aqua Sun", situated about 30 kilometers south of Taba, Egypt....

<snip>

According to the source, the Bedouin claim they own the land, despite that it was legally purchased from them years ago. "The Bedouin feel that they have been deprived, and that the state took control of their land, and now, after the revolution, they feel strong enough to take over tourist sites, to claim ownership of the land and take control of the [Egyptian] authorities," he said...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-...day-resort-demand-660-million-ransom-1.408875

 

[Fedayn]

Tahrir Square, 4pm today, 25th January.

 

[teqniq]

Looking like U.S. - Egypt relations may be becoming a little strained:

A group of American citizens have sought refuge at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo in the midst of an Egyptian government crackdown against pro-democracy and human-rights organizations.

U.S. officials have initiated a new round of diplomacy, including a call by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta to the head of the Egypt's military, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, to urge the lifting of travel restrictions on American employees of the nongovernmental organizations.

Sam LaHood, director of the Egypt office of the International Republican Institute and son of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, is among a group of U.S. citizens working in Egypt who have been told they can't leave the country as the Egyptian government investigates foreign funding of local NGOs.....

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204740904577192941277295320.html

and

The investigation has raised alarms in the Obama administration. President Obama called Egypt’s military ruler, Mohammed Hussein Tantawi, recently to express concern about the government's probe. State Department officials and U.S. lawmakers have made it clear to Egyptian officials that the crackdown could imperil future U.S. aid to Egypt, which for years has received roughly $1.3 billion annually, mostly in military assistance.

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland on Friday told reporters in Washington that the United States has urged the Egyptian government to resolve its investigation promptly, lift the travel ban and develop a mechanism to allow NGOs to register. ....

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/c..../29/gIQAIpLFaQ_mobile.mobile&cid=578815&spf=1

 

[butchersapron]

Mass rallies round the country to get rid of the military rule - muslim brotherhood forming a wall to protect parliament from protesters: "The people want the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood"

 

[teqniq]

More on the holiday resort and the Sinai in general:

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worl...reatens-egypt-israel-peace-treaty?pageCount=0

 

[butchersapron]

Very interesting piece on the MB and the 'thugs'.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

There's breaking news flashing up that 50 people have been killed at a football match in Port Said

 

[elbows]

I haven't time at the moment to comment properly on recent developments

Here is apparently the start of the football deaths incident:

 

[butchersapron]

73 is the lastest figure. Fucking hell.

 

[butchersapron]

Another ground on fire? Jumbled reports.

 

[butchersapron]

Shit, this is horrendous and is only going to get worse

 

[frogwoman]

Jesus

 

[elbows]

Another ground on fire? Jumbled reports.

There was some story that another football game was called off due to an electrical fire, that could be it I suppose.

 

[butchersapron]

Another ground on fire? Jumbled reports.

http://twitter.com/#!/TouchlineDrama/status/164796790032437248/photo/1

 

[elbows]

This is a story that pins blame for the Cairo fire on electrics or fireworks, though personally I do not rule out the other possibilities.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCon...n-Football/Fire-put-out-at-Cairo-Stadium.aspx

 

[butchersapron]

That would be a good result frankly - early reports suggested it was a response to news from port said.

 

[teqniq]

apparently the police did nothing to stop the pitch invasion

 

[teqniq]

just as I was thinking of posting about some of the speculations/accusations on Twitter this gets published:

The trouble started in the second half of the match when a small group of Ahly fans raised a banner insulting their rivals. But many of those present pointed out the conspicuous and near complete absence of security forces and their abandonment of regular protocol in securing football matches as the main culprit behind so many people dying in less than one hour.

Some political actors and commentators are drawing connections between the soccer-related violence and attempts in Parliament to put an end to the State of Emergency, which Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi recently said would only be applied to acts of “thuggery.”

“What happened cannot be a coincidence. This massacre and three armed robberies happened only one day after the Interior Minister came to Parliament trying to convince us of the importance of maintaining the State of Emergency,” Ziad El-Elaimy, an MP with the Social Democratic Party, said in a post-match television interview.

Eye witnesses confirm that security was largely absent when the Masry fans stormed the field. They also claim that security forces allowed Masry fans to enter the visiting team’s stands.

“Security forces are supposed to secure the fans’ exits with an iron fist. Protocol calls for them to close all gates leading to the visiting team’s fans until they are sure of their security,” said Adel Aql, a football association official, in an interview with ONTV. Aql blamed security forces’ handling of the situation for the large number of deaths.

“This is a massacre. I’ve never seen as many dead bodies in one place at one time out of all the wars I’ve witnessed,” said Port Said MP Al-Badry Farghaly in a television interview...

http://www.egyptindependent.com/node/632996

 

[elbows]

That would be a good result frankly - early reports suggested it was a response to news from port said.

I don't know what to believe at this point really. Its reasonable to expect people to tie events together and whip things up, but I presume that on the other hand one technique for trying to manage situations and tensions is to cover up evidence that the trouble has spread, at least in the early stages when this is even remotely plausible. As we've become well accustomed with Egypt to the notion that the state might often be keen to whip things up rather than calm them, I cannot say whether they have an interest in keeping a lid on this stuff, but I expect that those within football itself would have an interest in downplaying and calming this stuff as much as possible. But frankly the death toll from earlier is shocking and I find it hard to predict what the ramifications may be. Sometimes heavy stuff has happened in Egypt that felt like it would have equally heavy consequences, but then the response from all sides turned out relatively muted.

 

[T & P]

Fucking horrible thing regardless, but does anyone know what actually caused such massive number of deaths? I mean, was it the reported fire, an stampede, or are we actually talking about more than 70 people being murdered by rival fans at a football match? The latter does not bear thinking about.

Awful tragedy in any event

 

[gawkrodger]

is there a more overtly political aspect to this? Some twitter reports I've been reading are suggesting the one firm have been very pro-revolution, the others, the opposite?