Edinburgh - London: train vs plane (Scotsman challenge)
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
gosub
~#
Apart from the fact that Edinburgh doesn't have a neatly radial distribution of housing centred on Waverley train station.
Don't get me wrong, I've always chosen to travel Edinburgh > London by train rather than plane, but being a science teacher I crave a fair test
tbf the airlink((25 minute coach service with 8 stops to the airport) leaves from directly outside Waverley station
No need to bother with that, there's plenty of taxis around so you don't have to wait for a load of foreigners juggling change.
The main point is that most of Edinburgh's main businesses (e.g. the Financial Services sector) have decamped out to the Gyle (near the airport) so that they don't have to commute in past the dour ex-Labour toon cooncil's anti-car traffic schemes, therefore anyone travelling to the Gherkin would be more likely to be starting from there as opposed to starting from somewhere containing little other than tourist hotels and tartan tat shops.
gosub
~#
there are still quite a few financial services still based in new town.
staff don't sleep in their offices, probably living in Morningside or down on the shore
Airlink stops at Gyle also. its a good service works well, and now that the tram won't go to Leith is all the tram will be aiming on replacement. Looked at the tram car on Princes street the other day, the electrical pickups on the roof would tend to indicate that a third round of disruption is required
staff don't sleep in their offices, probably living in Morningside or down on the shore
Airlink stops at Gyle also. its a good service works well, and now that the tram won't go to Leith is all the tram will be aiming on replacement. Looked at the tram car on Princes street the other day, the electrical pickups on the roof would tend to indicate that a third round of disruption is required
Law Firms and a few "glory" head offices.
From whence it'd take them far longer to hack through all the artificial bus lane induced congestion to Waverley than whipping out to the airport.
Ah yes - the overhead wires, it's interesting that they tended to leave those out of all the hideously expensively produced propaganda, I mean, conceptual artwork.
Thankfully the Labour coterie were roundly whipped out of office and don't seem likely to return as the tram fiasco gets worse and worse, otherwise we'd see them trying to bring back other stuff from the 19th Century like cholera.........
Ich bin ein Mod
does his make up in his room
Could quite easily use the same argument for starting at the airport
I'll re-state that I'd still take the train over the plane any day. However, there are thousands of places they could have started from in Edinburgh city centre, starting outside Waverley train station just seems a bit cheaty to me.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
While everybody is frantically researching London-Edinburgh, has anyone seen a weekday flight that leaves Heathrow/Stansted/Luton at a civilised 09:45 or so, getting into Edinburgh at 11:00ish? There doesn't seem to be anything leaving between 08:50 and 10:40.
Could quite easily use the same argument for starting at the airport
I'll re-state that I'd still take the train over the plane any day. However, there are thousands of places they could have started from in Edinburgh city centre, starting outside Waverley train station just seems a bit cheaty to me.
The fair starting point would be an average of people's residential location. Having crunched some demographic and geo data on that this afternoon, I can concur that - in Edinburgh's case - that's not the city centre. More about that in a few days.
Other parts of the challenge were clearly designed to emphasise weaknesses of air travel (e.g. Baggage check), or strengths of train (Internet, 3 course meal, etc)
Do those things fully invalidate the result? That's subjective I'd say.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
A test that allows participants to determine their own variables can't really be expected to prove anything at all.
Claiming 'proof' from such a poorly constructed and obviously biased 'test' is completely misleading and undermines genuine and credible attempts to persuade people to use the train.
By participants, do you meant the journos doing the race, or the vested interests?
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
The test seems to be heavily biased (although no clear information on the parameters has been provided) to elicit a result 'in favour' of the train.
The blog is a little less opaque on the set up, but it's still not very clearly set out.
Some things, I thought, were relevant. In the context of a business trip, setting a "doing work" task isn't too contrived. Most work these days involves some kind of typing, communicating with people, maybe using the internet.
In the case of the "gift of a bottle of whisky", that was clearly a device to highlight the inconvenience of baggage checking. For a one day business trip, that's quite contrived.
Still, it does very fairly demolish some of the more outlandish claims I've read here. End-to-end journey times of just "an hour", "flights are only fifty quid", "the loos on trains are usually closed", "most people in Edinburgh live next to the airport".
There's alot of bollocks spouted by air advocates.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
And now there's a lot of crap being spouted by rail advocates. I don't see how this is helpful to anyone!
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Really?
I'll be putting it all to the test soon. No cherry picked 'facts'.
By the way, does anyone still do business class EDI-LCY? I'm struggling to find it.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
Yes, vis a vis the train being faster than a jet to London etc etc etc...
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I'll be putting it all to the test soon. No cherry picked 'facts'.
.
I look forward to the results.
Perhaps you could be persuaded to help with a survey looking at relative rail travel costs in different countries that I've been contemplating for some time. When I say "help with" what I really mean is "do".
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Where specifically?
It's hard enough to do an objective assessment of one route in a single country.
Maybe when I'm unemployed again
You'll be impressed with my analysis of a "home starting point" in Edinburgh. You will, I promise you.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
I was under the impression this was the point being made in the OP.
Seeing as this was mentioned a while back, I thought that everyones favourite poster, and the rest of this forum, might like to know about this race between train and plane from the Scotsman Hotel in Edinburgh, to the Gherkin in the City.
http://trainvplane.scotsman.com/default.aspx
The train won by ten minutes.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
BA has business class fares on that route, but like all their domestic flights no separate business class cabin. Air France has dropped it.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
A train can be faster door-door from Edinburgh to London than a jet. I don't think anyone's tried to say that it always will be, in every circumstance. If they said that, then that would count as spouting a "lot of crap". But they haven't (as far as I recall).
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
Perhaps not, perhaps instead a 'confirmation bias' in favour of the train would be a better description.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yes, that seems fair.
This is different from the nonsense coming from the air advocates that paolo999 was referring to though.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
It's no different at all. The pro-rail advocates are selectively choosing scenarios, anecdotes or information which presents train travel more favourably than air travel.
Anyway. The way forward is to get a high speed rail link between London and Edinburgh going - I think that would shift the playing field quite markedly.
Anyway. The way forward is to get a high speed rail link between London and Edinburgh going - I think that would shift the playing field quite markedly.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Yer, as does anyone in pretty much any argument, but certain air advocates were making statements that were simply untrue, for example about shopping being cheaper at the airport because it's "duty free" or that you only get compensation for "very" late trains when in reality you'll get 100% back for any delay over an hour.
Ich bin ein Mod
does his make up in his room
The fair starting point would be an average of people's residential location. Having crunched some demographic and geo data on that this afternoon, I can concur that - in Edinburgh's case - that's not the city centre. More about that in a few days.
I have to say I'm geekily excited about seeing this. Sterling work good chap
Ah ok. Their booking page doesn't list it as a class, but has it a fare type 'Flexible (Business UK)'... I'm guessing that's it.
Am I right in saying that previously you got an economy sized seat, but there'd be (at least) one empty seat next to you?
(And that isn't the case any more?)
