You need a decent travel agent
I thought I might.
I'm normally quite good at this (well, not me so much as skyscanner.net
)
Edinburgh - London: train vs plane (Scotsman challenge)
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
I thought I might.
I'm normally quite good at this (well, not me so much as skyscanner.net
)
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
Dunno all the tricks but if you have to check luggage in it adds loads of time to your travel. I never check luggage in but I'm never away for more than 4 nights. I check in online, get to airport, go through security, check out shops, get on plane, get off, leave airport. Only queues are to get on/off plane
If you have toiletries make sure they are less than 100ml(or up to) and in a sealed sandwich/freezer type bag.You can fly Scotairways(or whatever it's called now) from Edinburgh to LCY btw, no idea what the prices are coz IF i can afford to fly with them I go from Dundee
Dunno all the tricks but if you have to check luggage in it adds loads of time to your travel. I never check luggage in but I'm never away for more than 4 nights. I check in online, get to airport, go through security, check out shops, get on plane, get off, leave airport. Only queues are to get on/off plane
You can fly Scotairways(or whatever it's called now) from Edinburgh to LCY btw, no idea what the prices are coz IF i can afford to fly with them I go from Dundee
BA's document is a 130 point checklist, comprised of 26 categories, each of which with a set of five yes/no conditions.
Removing things like explosives and ammunition
there's still a fair amount of ordinary household items. Spare laptop batteries have specific restrictions on where they can go, certain types of cigarette lighters are a no-no, gas hair straighteners/curlers have particular considerations etc etc.You may obviously know how to travel for your particular needs. Many people don't, as the contents of the amnesty bins are a testament to. Others will blunder through on a happy mix of ignorance and not getting caught.
What underlines that this level of inconvenience is real, not imagined, is that the airlines themselves (some, at least) are actively lobbying against it. If it didn't exist, why would they do that?
The argument is completely mad though.
Whenever I travelled to Barcelona I took a flight. Whenever I travelled to Berlin I did the same. Whenever I travelled to Brussels it made more sense to take the train as there was a quicker and cheaper service doing it.
As for travellingto the norh, I take the train. Money aside, the trains are more widely available and as I'm passing through Peterborough I'd be just pulling in to Gatwick...
Whenever I travelled to Barcelona I took a flight. Whenever I travelled to Berlin I did the same. Whenever I travelled to Brussels it made more sense to take the train as there was a quicker and cheaper service doing it.
As for travellingto the norh, I take the train. Money aside, the trains are more widely available and as I'm passing through Peterborough I'd be just pulling in to Gatwick...
Sure. I find the transatlantic train services very limited.
And conversely, when you get below the 3 hour tipping point, most people take the train. (e.g. Eurostar 75% market share of London-Paris).
It's the boundary cases of 4-5 hours by train that make for an interesting debate.
Cityjet is £390 return for Tuesday vs. £188 on the train.
The only outbound flight is 13:50.
There are two return flights in the evening.
Unlike the trains which stop at 18:00 in each direction - useless.
The point here is that with Cityjet, the earliest time you could start your business in the city is about 16:00. Realistically you've got two hours before having to turn tail.
For this reason, I suspect almost noone uses Cityjet for a one day EDI-LON business trip.
Sure. I find the transatlantic train services very limited.
And conversely, when you get below the 3 hour tipping point, most people take the train. (e.g. Eurostar 75% market share of London-Paris).
It's the boundary cases of 4-5 hours by train that make for an interesting debate.
Fair dos. I have considered flying to the north in the past but it never made sense. If I was going north of the border it probably would.
editor
hiraethified
How would you fancy living under the flight path of all those noisy, late night planes, Cobbles?
editor
hiraethified
But that's the whole point: you don't need to check anything in when you travel by train and there's not some jobsworth weighing your luggage either, ready and willing to fine you if you go over your miniscule allowance.
lighterthief
Well-Known Member
Come off it Ed, seriously. Yes, budget airlines sting you for overweight luggage (which you know well in advance of your journey, unless you've been living in a box for the last five years). But for most non 'budget' flights (which in the case of Edinburgh > London City would be with carriers like BA, Air France, CityJet) the baggage allowance is much more generous - 20 to 23kg checked baggage, iirc, and either 10 or 12kg hand baggage.
That's upwards of 30kg of baggage - most people travel with far far less, whatever their mode of transport.
/slight derail: and enough of the disparaging remarks about check-in staff: the vast majority do a darn good job and have to deal with more than their fair share of arrogant twats ime. And if someone turns up at the airport with a piece of baggage that weighs more than their allowance, whose fault is that? And no doubt we all have stories about arsey ticket conductors on trains and the like /end derail
Houses under a flight path are cheap - just like houses that have a railway line at the bottom of the garden.
If you want somewhere quiet and secluded, then be prepared to pay the relevant premium.
You can also use BA and Air France - between the 3 of them, there's a flight to London City just about every hour, starting at about 6:30 and running through to just after 7PM - heading South, as far as I can recall, the last plane north is 8-ish.
Air travel pisses all over the train for flexibility as the last London bound flight is the Gatwick one around 9PM so depending on where you live (probably as many people live close to Gatwicka s live next door to Kings Cross) it'll still get you home before your colleague who had to duck out of a meeting, tail between their legs to catch the last train at 6PM...............
editor
hiraethified
Right. So poor people should just put up with the noise and pollution because you're just so damn important yes?
Is that noise and pollution from railway lines that you're talking about? As the railways have been there since the 1850's there can't be anybody left who can remember "the days before the tracks were laid and this was a nice quiet house" - apart from folk about to be blighted by the mooted "high speed" rail link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/01/ladbroke-hs2-conservation-railway etc. etc. - bloody nimbies standing in the way of railway expansion - tsk tsk what's property values and a bit of extra noise compared with the convenience of hen and stag parties being able to get oop Nawth (as far as the Midlands, anyway) a wee bit quicker,
So, to summarise the findings so far from a business travel point of view.
(a) You can shave time off by going to City on BA or AF, but it's about 2 - 3 times the price of the other London Airports, based on the numbers I looked at. For short notice trips, this can mean as much as £200+ premium.
(b) CityJet isn't an option for day trips, so that's irrelevant in the scope of the Scotsman Challenge. [Retracted]
(c) The longest you can sit down to do some work during the journey is about an hour. About 40 minutes if this needs to be on a laptop. During this time, you can't use the internet or have a phone conversation.
Correct so far?
(a) You can shave time off by going to City on BA or AF, but it's about 2 - 3 times the price of the other London Airports, based on the numbers I looked at. For short notice trips, this can mean as much as £200+ premium.
(b) CityJet isn't an option for day trips, so that's irrelevant in the scope of the Scotsman Challenge. [Retracted]
(c) The longest you can sit down to do some work during the journey is about an hour. About 40 minutes if this needs to be on a laptop. During this time, you can't use the internet or have a phone conversation.
Correct so far?
The noise issue possibly remains moot, when looking at High Speed Rail vs. Short Haul Air.
There are perhaps more recent studies, so far I've only found the 2001 government research, which concluded:
"Our conclusion is that without more detailed analysis, on a route by route basis, it is not possible to say categorically that one mode has a lower noise burden than the other."
http://cfit.independent.gov.uk/pubs/2001/racomp/racomp/04.htm
There are perhaps more recent studies, so far I've only found the 2001 government research, which concluded:
"Our conclusion is that without more detailed analysis, on a route by route basis, it is not possible to say categorically that one mode has a lower noise burden than the other."
http://cfit.independent.gov.uk/pubs/2001/racomp/racomp/04.htm
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
You can book a flight today for a flight Edinburgh to London City on friday for as little as £59 , I dont suppose you could get a train for that. Why is Cityjet not an option for day trips, its more of an option than rail!
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
Cityjet start at 625am, I dont understand your point!
Here's some more cherry picked numbers that have no context:
You can book a sleeper to the highlands for as little as £21.
My mate once gave me a lift for free.
etc etc
The only way to fairly compare is to pick an actual journey, on a given day, with whatever requirements (baggage, timing, end points etc) applied equally.
Ah, apologies, correction then: When I went to test the booking, the only available flight was 13:50. So maybe you can use CityJet if they've got seats left.
editor
hiraethified
If you give a fuck about the environment, there's 87% less CO2 emissions per passenger by train on the London to Edinburgh route compared to the plane.
http://www.seat61.com/CO2flights.htm
http://www.seat61.com/CO2flights.htm
teuchter
je suis teuchter
There is already a thread on this. 
Regarding costs - these are all too often ignored in these comparisons (especially once people start talking about flying to city airport etc) and there is an entrenched myth that the plane is usually much cheaper.
Recently I wrote to Time Out because they had done a travel feature on Scotland and had only listed the options for flying, saying nothing about the train. The travel editor replied to me with various feeble excuses, and also said:
I know that's rubbish so I wrote back to him with some examples, as follows:
The prices are those retrieved on the 4th Nov. Yes, I know there are other airlines aside from Easyjet but I think it's fair to use them as a general indication.
Regarding costs - these are all too often ignored in these comparisons (especially once people start talking about flying to city airport etc) and there is an entrenched myth that the plane is usually much cheaper.
Recently I wrote to Time Out because they had done a travel feature on Scotland and had only listed the options for flying, saying nothing about the train. The travel editor replied to me with various feeble excuses, and also said:
I know that's rubbish so I wrote back to him with some examples, as follows:
The prices are those retrieved on the 4th Nov. Yes, I know there are other airlines aside from Easyjet but I think it's fair to use them as a general indication.
editor
hiraethified
Let me get a-mergin'.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
I see Cobbles is still singing the same tune as when I was last here.
(although, to be fair, so is Roryer!)
(although, to be fair, so is Roryer!)
