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DWP just informed me I am no longer entitled to ESA

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Chris.H.1961

Member
Just got a phone call from DWP informing me I am no longer entitled to ESA as I didn't score any points at all at my assessment???

This is despite the fact I have a form of Epilepsy (15 points) amongst other things, and Malignant Hypertension. My BP was so bad in fact the assessment was ended early and the Doctor insisted I was taken home in a taxi.

I thought at the very worst I'd be dropped a level and put into the WRAG, but to be told I have to sign on for JSA when I am unfit to look for work leaves me gobsmacked.

WTF do I do now??
 
That sounds like they either lost your notes, got your records mixed up with someone else or they are just pulling names out of a tombola to send the letters to.

I hope you get it sorted out soon.
 
Sorry to hear this ..........
Start the full appeal process, claim hardship payments ...............call MP, and post on the ATOS thread for more advice, as several people have had similar situations to deal with.
 
Chris.H.1961 said:
WTF do I do now??
Click to expand...

The first step is 'Mandatory Reconsideration' (MR), during which a decision-maker - not the one who made the original decision, ostensibly - looks again at your claim and reconsiders the initial decision. It's basically a hurdle thrown in your way to demoralise you and try to deter you from appealing. Nevertheless, take the opportunity to challenge the decision. Gather as much evidence from clinicians and friends as you can, and submit a statement taking issue with the decision and highlighting everything you think is wrong with it and the 'Healthcare Professional's' report. Don't be downcast if the DWP seem to ignore everything you say - or at least the bits that are inconvenient for them - and insist the original decision was correct: that's the whole point of the exercise. Be aware, you need to act quickly: the deadline for MR submissions is very tight.

Assuming MR goes against you - you'll know in a few weeks - you then move to full appeal. Be warned, this will be a slow process as the system has pretty much collapsed and the wait for a hearing is currently 27 weeks or thereabouts. To appeal, you simply need to fill in a form, and you can (and should) also provide a statement, much as for MR, taking issue with the original and reconsidered decisions. Again, submit as much evidence as you can. After that, all you can do is sit back and wait for your hearing date. Once you are in the appeals system, however, IIRC you can go back onto ESA, albeit only at 'assessment rate,' which is a pittance.

At any stage during the process, if your health worsens significantly, you can put in a fresh claim for ESA if your doctor signs you off sick, although again you will only be on 'assessment rate' until either you are assessed again (unlikely to happen soon, what with the chaos the system is now in) or your claim is allowed without assessment.

Keep a log of all contact with the DWP, and always try to ascertain the name of anyone you speak to.*edit* One other tip: sign up to the Benefits and Work forum: there are some people on there who really know their stuff and will be able to give better advice than most. Also, a problem shared is a problem halved, and all that: try to get a friend involved, preferably someone who's good at paperwork and legalese!

Take heart. You can get this decision overturned. It will take time and it will feel like bashing your head against a brick wall at times, but it can be done. Good luck. :)
 
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Somebody remind me of the (high) percentage of these appeals that are allowed !
(My personal opinion is that a lot of ESA claims are initially turned down in order to put people off claiming their entitlements ! )
 
Just wanted to say first of all thanks to all for kind words and advice, it's given me helpful info of what I need to do next.

I won't be around much, or at all if I can't sort a few things out, negotiatiating a deal with Virgin being just one, as the way it's looking I won't have enough money to exist on never mind pay for my internet etc

Thanks again
 
Chris.H.1961 - for internet access; if needed you could try looking for the free wifi with cups of coffee deals - or cut something similar locally with a neighbouring source ?
My sympathies and best wishes, as I said ^^^ the system is set up to discourage so if you can, get support and fight against it !
 
Question:- when was the last time you visited your GP?

When the decision notice comes through you will have to start providing fit notes again to keep your current claim alive. So make a GP appointment your 1st priority - don't wait for the decision notice either. Go explain what's happening and ask if there's a way to get a fit note from the decision notice date (it's the actual letter date that's important).

Now since you will not get paid ESA during the mandy (mandatory reconsideration) period you have 3 options;

1, claim nothing and wait until you lodge the appeal with the Tribunal Service - when they notify the DWP of the valid appeal ESA assessment rate will go into payment and be back dated to the day of the dis allowance decision - could somebody else confirm this as I'm 99% sure but....

2, claim JSA whilst you wait for the appeal accepted notification to hit the DWP. You can argue your "claimant commitment" JSAg to accommodate your issues. I'll be frank here the JCP staff are not trained for this and will be very confused about what happens. Have a look on rightsnet discussion forums in the ESA section for tips about your rights and what to do with fit notes.

3, start a new claim for ESA on the grounds of a "NEW" condition or deterioration of current condition. Whilst neither will effect your current mandy/appeal, it will/may trigger a new WCA (eventually) and this new decision can/will effect the 1st claim. Both of these override the 6 month rule so the assessment rate of ESA should go into payment. Now expect them not to know their own rules and on top of that a deterioration can be very trick to prove unless its really obvious.

Now which ever choice you make you need to provide valid fitnotes from the decision notice date until the appeal/mandy is won in your favour. Take a copy and send off to the usual address.

It might also be very wise to either view or throw in a S.A.R for your GP patient records see here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.u...-copy-of-or-view-your-patient-records-Updated

The Tribunal Service can and will request them now if can't afford it but if you can send stuff in it may preempt that and the stuff you send in is what you want.
 
I had similar problems back in March where the 'assessment' awarded me 12 points. I requested a mandatory reconsideration and after two days, got a call from the DWP where I submitted verbal evidence. They did say at the time they could reaward me ESA on the Work Related group, but after a few days was told that I was being put back in the support group instead.
 
((Chris.H.1961 ))

Do post on the ATOS thread. The TLDR version is that everything is set up to deliberately fail you to stop you from claiming, but if you persevere to the tribunal stage, you will get a fair hearing.

As for free internet, libraries often offer it.
 
Chris.H.1961 said:
...
I won't be around much, or at all if I can't sort a few things out, negotiatiating a deal with Virgin being just one, as the way it's looking I won't have enough money to exist on never mind pay for my internet etc

Thanks again
Click to expand...

I really hope you can keep your internet access. It's such a wonderful lifeline to the world. If Virgin won't help, perhaps change supplier? I use Talktalk, which costs me approx. £25 per month for landline 'phone and internet.

Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but public libraries generally give you free use of computers and internet, (charge you 10p a page if you have to print stuff, but otherwise completely free) and some provide free wifi if you bring along your own laptop or whatever. Community centres *might* also offer free wifi.* Obviously you're still stuck with transport costs to get to library. Any remote chance a neighbour would let you use their Wifi? Plus the cafe idea that another poster has mentioned.

Your situation sounds horrible, and I am sure you will win on appeal, but it's the hellish business of going through that whole process with that really hurts. Very best of luck.

* Before I fixed a typo, I was suggesting that they might offer a free wife. Oops. :)


Edited to add - haha, while I was half typing, and half wandering off to the loo, Quartz manages to point out about the public libraries. :D Oh well.
 
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Bic Basher said:
I had similar problems back in March where the 'assessment' awarded me 12 points. I requested a mandatory reconsideration and after two days, got a call from the DWP where I submitted verbal evidence. They did say at the time they could reaward me ESA on the Work Related group, but after a few days was told that I was being put back in the support group instead.
Click to expand...

Excellent result, but I wonder if they have any idea how much suffering they put people through with these cock-ups. Glad it worked out for you, though, and I'm amazed that it only took them a few days. Happy happy, joy, joy!
 
Regarding the internet issue. I joined TalkTalk in August online and pay under £16 per month for their simply broadband package as I pay within 24 hours of the bill being sent out as they offer a 10% discount. Just don't use the phone for outgoing calls though!

They normally offer free installation as a £50 welcome credit with your first bill.
 
Celyn said:
Excellent result, but I wonder if they have any idea how much suffering they put people through with these cock-ups. <snip>
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There are all kinds of convenient lies which people tell themselves so that they can continue to believe they're the person who their friends etc believe they know and maybe even love:
"I only filled in the form, I didn't make the decision"
"It's not my fault if the information was imperfect, I could only make the decision based on the evidence I was given"
"It's not my fault, I did the best I could with the unwieldy software which limited my answers"
"It's not my fault that I can't process these claims quickly, we've been snowed under with requests for appeals"
"It's not my fault - I had to take this job to support my family while waiting to get my medical qualification converted to something which I can use in the UK"
"It's not my fault - that claimant was in a very bad way and probably would have commited suicide anyway - I'd hate to make old bones in their state. I'll say an extra prayer for them after confession."
"It's not my fault, I thought this job was kosher and can't afford to just leave, I won't get JSA if I do that."
 
Huge thanks to all for advice/support/encouragement. It's a massive help in itself just knowing there are people who care out there :)

To Superfly101, I went to my GP's the day before the reassessment and my BP was 170/90. That rose sharply - cos of all the stress no doubt - to 230/120 on the day of the reassessment. I went back to my GP's later that day and it had come back down to the previous days figures.

Both levels are dangerously high - and that's while taking 4 different meds - and the lowest one is only 10 points lower than when I was put in support group in 2013, so I don't understand how that was disregarded this time. Especially when the ''Doctor'' who was examining me shit himself and stopped the tests early and insisted I was taken home immediately in a taxi at their expense.

I was awarded 15 points last time and while I was on IB solely for having a form of Epilepsy. I got more points for other problems including Depression and mobility etc which is a lot worse this time than last. I can barely walk anywhere now without being breathless and in so much pain I have to stop. So how I scored ZERO this time is beyond me?!?!

The Atos ''Doctor'' told me the rules are stricter now for Epilepsy than they were before, but all the info I have read to date still says you get 15 points which should be enough in itself. Even if they reduced that, with everything else going on I should have more than made up enough points with all the other problems.

I have an app with my GP on Wed, an app with Welfare Rights on Tues, and my MP has contacted some guy at another local advice centre who is going to contact me asap.

A couple of points keep running round my head;

1) if I claim JSA am I not leaving myself wide open to a charge of committing fraud? I can't say I'm fit and actively seeking work when I'm not/won't be.

2) what happens about my HB CTB? Do I have to inform them?

3) are my HA likely to support me when I won't be able to pay the Bedroom Tax or will they seek eviction?

4) Have the rules changed about having to wait 6 months before you can put in a fresh claim for ESA?

I don't really want to have to start a new claim, I just want the bastards to sort this one out.

Anyway thanks again.
 
Chris.H.1961 said:
1) if I claim JSA am I not leaving myself wide open to a charge of committing fraud? I can't say I'm fit and actively seeking work when I'm not/won't be
Click to expand...

You have no choice. When you sign on make it quite clear to the 'advisor' that you don't consider yourself fit for work, that you will be appealing your refusal of ESA and when you win you will want it backdating. Tell them that you are actively seeking work (or they won't pay you) but the work you are looking for will have to be suitable for somebody with your illness / disability.

Remember that ESA is now structured so that it is hard to get unless you can show you are not fit to do any work but that doesn't mean the JSA monkeys can force you to do any work. If a job is likely to put you or anybody else in danger or exacerbate an existing condition then you have a perfect right to refuse it. I was in a similar position and the DWP wallah was quite happy to write a 'jobseekers agreement' which effectively said 'This man is not fit for work but he might be OK in a job without shifts where he doesn't use machinery, work on safety critical jobs or actually have to talk to anybody'... Fucking ridiculous isn't it?

Get your request for Mandatory Reconsideration in ASAP but unless you can show massive amounts of high quality evidence that you are at death's door or preferably dead and burried don't expect a reversal. The MR is there purely as an obstacle to discourage claimants from appealing. If you don't have a copy of the Medical Report (ESA85) written by the ATOS chimp then get hold of one now.

When you get kicked back from MR go straight to appeal. Once you have submitted the appeal form (which only asks for an outline reason for appeal so you have plenty of time to gather all your evidence) and the DWP have been notified by the tribunal that the appeal is in you can go back on ESA until the appeal albeit only on the assessment rate. When I last enquired the wait for an appeal was 27 weeks.


2) what happens about my HB CTB? Do I have to inform them?
Click to expand...

The DWP will probably tell them anyway but do it yourself regardless.


3) are my HA likely to support me when I won't be able to pay the Bedroom Tax or will they seek eviction?
Click to expand...

No idea... Good luck.


Have the rules changed about having to wait 6 months before you can put in a fresh claim for ESA?

I don't really want to have to start a new claim, I just want the bastards to sort this one out.
Click to expand...

The six month rule doesn't apply if your condition changes or worsens. I was on JSA for about 12 weeks before I got signed off as unfit for work by my GP. I got a MED3 which said in the condition box 'Bipolar disorder... Worsening' and put in a new claim. The problem is you have to spend 13 weeks on the assessment rate or until a new medical which, given the chaos the system is in now could be substantially longer than that. However... As I understand it (but don't quote me on this) if you do make a new claim within 6 months and that claim is allowed the full rate will be backdated to the start date and you will get the difference between the assessment rate and the full award backdated.
 
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Chris.H.1961 said:
2) what happens about my HB CTB? Do I have to inform them?
Click to expand...

longdog said:
The DWP will probably tell them anyway but do it yourself regardless.
Click to expand...

^ That.

While my experience of working in HB is a bit out of date, I think the basics are still the same -

DWP will tell your local council, but this can take a while (especially if you live close to a council boundary that does not match a postcode boundary and they inform the wrong council) and all they will say is that "Mr H.1961 ceased getting ESA on X date."

Council will therefore stop your claim at X date, and say there is an 'overpayment' of all the HB / CTB you have received since X date and can they have it back like about now plz.

I'd suggest advise council of a change of circumstances, that ESA has been stopped, you are currently appealing / claiming JSA / whatever you are doing. A 'change of circumstances' is easier to deal with than having a claim stopped and having to start a new claim, especially if you are trying to get that new claim backdated (i.e. get HB from the time before you put the claim in - I think with CTB at least, councils now have more discretion not to do backdating.)

Even in extreme circumstances, you can claim HB on zero income, although council will ask for some sort of explanation how you're meeting living expenses in the short term.
 
Puddy_Tat said:
Council will therefore stop your claim at X date, and say there is an 'overpayment' of all the HB / CTB you have received since X date and can they have it back like about now plz.
Click to expand...

The Council will "suspend" payment and should send a letter giving you a month to provide evidence of continued entitlement. If no evidence is forthcoming then it will close the claim. This is to minimise any overpayment.

Basically the DWP notify that benefit/s have stopped but not why. This is of little importance as when you claimed LHA/HB/CTS/whatever from the Council you signed a form stating that "YOU" yes you not the DWP a bloke in the pub (sorry being silly now) would inform them of any changes.

For a nil income declaration - write a letter stating ESA has stopped, I will be appealing the decision and will be living off DLA/savings/etc during the mandatory reconsideration phase. Or something along those lines. Sign and date it and provide 3 months of bank statements. They tend to like bank statements as they prove that you do not have another secret income.

Unless your council manage things on line get a couple of change or circumstance forms as you'll have to tell them again when ESA starts again.
 
And keep talking (well, writing) to all the organisations concerned. It's very scary being piggy-in-the-middle with the DWP, Council and Housing Assocation, but keep in touch,

"Dear Ms Bloggs of Housing Association, Thank you for your letter. Yes, I do understand that you want lots of money. I have written/filled in form/whatever for Housing Benefit, and have sent this to the Council. They will receive it tomorrow and, although I don't know how long it takes to process these things, I will inform you at once when I hear from them" sort of thing.

Very much along the lines of "look, I am doing everything correctly, I am doing everything I can, and don't regard me as evil bad unco-operative tenant."

They'll still nag you, but at least it keeps their tone fairly civil. :)

It's another reason why you really need internet access. This sort of to-and-fro with the Housing Association, if done by e-mail, is a LOT less troublesome than having to go out and physically get yourself to a postbox every time you have to talk to them.
 
It is better to personally inform relevant agencies of changes in circumstances relating to benefits, often when one department says they'll tell the other one they either don't or they take so long you end up being overpaid and it's a bit of a nightmare. I think if you look on the original award letter it should state that you are expected to inform re change in circumstances, I could be wrong though. Anyway, my professional experience is that it is better in the long term to inform them yourself.
 
superfly101 said:
The Council will "suspend" payment and should send a letter giving you a month to provide evidence of continued entitlement. If no evidence is forthcoming then it will close the claim. This is to minimise any overpayment.
Click to expand...

that, for the benefits system, sounds remarkably sensible.

is this a new (ish) procedure? (it's 20 years since i did housing benefits work)

and is it definitely the procedure in all councils? i'd stick by the 'get in touch' advice..
 
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