Dungeon Crawl : Stone Soup

[tommers]

Now that three of us are playing this maybe we should have a thread so we don't clog up the other one with all the "oh shit, I've died again" nonsense?

Cheibriados is essentially cheating, let's start off with that.

I'm running a Spriggan Enchanter at the moment, not sure how viable that is but it's fun to be a little goblin thing running about really quickly and putting people to sleep. Level 9 or something at the moment.

yield FridgeMagnet

 

[Pickman's model]

yield fridgemagnet you varlet

 

[tommers]

Wiki

 

[chilango]

I play this! (Occasionally)

 

[yield]

On my best run so far with a polearms Minotaur Fighter. The reach really helps. I'm level 11 on Dungeon 10 and about to try the Lair.

Early game success seems to depend on luck and good item finds.

I've had some embarassing deaths so far. Being mobbed by yaks etc.

 

[tommers]

On my best run so far with a polearms Minotaur Fighter. The reach really helps. I'm level 11 on Dungeon 10 and about to try the Lair.

Early game success seems to depend on luck and good item finds.

I've had some embarassing deaths so far. Being mobbed by yaks etc.

Nothing embarrassing about being killed by yaks. They're bastards. As long as you don't get surrounded you're usually alright.

My best run was also with a minotaur fighter. The thumpy classes do seem to do a bit better, I tried a deep elf wizard about ten times and never got past level 5. If you take Cheibriados as your God then you can just walk through most things.

This Spriggan I've got going on now is doing well though. Very sneaky and if anybody wakes up he can put them back to sleep and then stab them. The main problem I can see is that some of the monsters are very resistant to charm, sleep, confuse etc. You can always charm other creatures though or blind / poison them. I predict his downfall will be somebody with good offensive spells as he has fuck all health.

Has anybody been in the swamp? I've got that, slime pit or spiders. Got corrosion protection but no poison.

 

[yield]

Nothing embarrassing about being killed by yaks. They're bastards. As long as you don't get surrounded you're usually alright.

My best run was also with a minotaur fighter. The thumpy classes do seem to do a bit better, I tried a deep elf wizard about ten times and never got past level 5. If you take Cheibriados as your God then you can just walk through most things.

This Spriggan I've got going on now is doing well though. Very sneaky and if anybody wakes up he can put them back to sleep and then stab them. The main problem I can see is that some of the monsters are very resistant to charm, sleep, confuse etc. You can always charm other creatures though or blind / poison them. I predict his downfall will be somebody with good offensive spells as he has fuck all health.

Has anybody been in the swamp? I've got that, slime pit or spiders. Got corrosion protection but no poison.

Is Cheibriados that good? Just from the stat bonuses?

Think I'll stick with fighters at the moment. Doubt I can make fragile magic users or sneaks last.

The Minotaur got murdered by Sonja the kobold assassin.

Tried a Deep Dwarf fighter. Learnt evocations, to go with his recharge ability, for wands I found.

I was doing really well. Ate some mutagenic meat which made him frail.

Fell three floors through a hole in the Dungeon. Then got mobbed by white ugly things.

Still got to work out when to run.

 

[tommers]

Is Cheibriados that good? Just from the stat bonuses?

My minotaur had 43 Strength So yeah. And Slouch is effectively a smart bomb. I only died cos I met a lich who could cast crystal spear repeatedly at me. Before I met him I had to retreat maybe once or twice but generally just ploughed through anything. Axes are good as well cos they hit anything that is adjacent to you. Makes mobs much more manageable. Just stick on some heavy armour, get as big a shield as you can and off you go.

The only downside is that you can't run away from anything. If you're in the open and you need to get out then you'll need a teleport or invisibility or whatever. But to be honest that wasn't that big a deal.

 

[yield]

My minotaur had 43 Strength So yeah. And Slouch is effectively a smart bomb. I only died cos I met a lich who could cast crystal spear repeatedly at me. Before I met him I had to retreat maybe once or twice but generally just ploughed through anything. Axes are good as well cos they hit anything that is adjacent to you. Makes mobs much more manageable. Just stick on some heavy armour, get as big a shield as you can and off you go.

The only downside is that you can't run away from anything. If you're in the open and you need to get out then you'll need a teleport or invisibility or whatever. But to be honest that wasn't that big a deal.

I'll try Cheibriados next then!

Having a better run with a Deep Dwarf fighter following Okawaru.

Been gifted a +5 runed dire flail of crushing. Chews through Gorgons.

Some of the stuff on the wiki is really confusing regarding evasion, armour and dodge.

Can't work out if I'm better off with (enchanted) scale mail for evasion as I can't use a shield?

 

[chilango]

Level 7 is the highest I've got. Deep Dwarf berserker. Still alive.

But keep playing frail assassins and marksmen who get mobbed by "robin" around level 3

 

[tommers]

My spriggan just died. Met a magic resistant guardian snake who could cast some spells and that was that. He got to level 15 though.

I have never met a gorgon, where are they?

I think armour is better than evasion but I don't really have anything to back up that assertion. Just I know that characters with high evasion do get hit and then you're in trouble.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The rules around armour and evasion are absurdly complicated and it makes it very hard to min/max. I've had very durable EV based characters and it's a workable strategy but you have to be much more cautious and retreat much earlier—one solid hit and you should leg it, because another one might knock you out completely.

Another issue is that Crawl's damage system can be extremely variable and the only way of making it more predictable is armour. Look up GDR in the wiki—better armour has a higher guaranteed % reduction, regardless of actual AC, which can be more useful because it means you can plan properly. EV characters don't have this.

It's one of the things that makes troll monks good long term btw. At first you can't use armour much at all because none of it fits, so you have to train up Dodging, but once you get hold of some dragon armour, which fits everyone, it has great GDR and you have the strength to overcome penalties.

 

[chilango]

My dwarf bezerker killed Robin

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Nagas are the best race for Chei because you get huge piety bonuses as everything else is faster than you. If you can get to the Lair you can have 25+ for all your stats. The trouble with nagas is that they are weak in the early game because they can't escape.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I've stopped playing Crawl except in two strictly defined circumstances, now, btw.

1. It's 3 in the morning and I have inexplicably woken up and can't get back to sleep;
2. I'm at work.

So, tbh, not a lot of difference then. (One advantage of being a developer is that you regularly have lots of terminals open so another one that's ssh-ing into crawl.akrasiac.org really doesn't draw any attention.)

 

[tommers]

Yeah, I play strictly on the way to and from work. But that is over 3 hrs a day so you know.

Gargoyle Earth Elementalist. Immune to poison and petrification, resistant to negative and draining, high armour class and nobody has resistance to physical earth damage outside of armour. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[yield]

My spriggan just died. Met a magic resistant guardian snake who could cast some spells and that was that. He got to level 15 though.

The deep dwarf is level 13 now. The fights are getting tougher

I have never met a gorgon, where are they?

I'm pretty deep in the Lair. Cleared the Ice cave & the Volcano.

You can't use swords against Gorgons as they grow extra heads.

Been swarmed a few times too only saved potions of lignification.

I think armour is better than evasion but I don't really have anything to back up that assertion. Just I know that characters with high evasion do get hit and then you're in trouble.

Thanks FM I didn't know about Guaranteed damage reduction. Looks like I'm better off with plate armour.

 

[chilango]

My dwarf got taken out around level 9 by something innocuous that he shoulda just ran away from.

I'm enjoying playing Spriggan enchanters at the moment. Sneak up to something, put em to sleep and then stab em. Very satisfying. But running away is key. I haven't managed to get one beyond level 5 yet.

Trying to only play in short bursts as a "task divider" at work (clearing my mind of the detritus of one task before tackling another that requires a fresh view)

 

[tommers]

My dwarf got taken out around level 9 by something innocuous that he shoulda just ran away from.

I'm enjoying playing Spriggan enchanters at the moment. Sneak up to something, put em to sleep and then stab em. Very satisfying. But running away is key. I haven't managed to get one beyond level 5 yet.

Trying to only play in short bursts as a "task divider" at work (clearing my mind of the detritus of one task before tackling another that requires a fresh view)

I think the key to them is to get some kind of damage spell working cos you get to a point where everything has magic resistance.

Although if you only have a 20% chance that still means you should only have to last 5 rounds before you put them to sleep and kill them. Train stealth and short blades, as well as your magic.

And remember you run quick!

 

[tommers]

You can't use swords against Gorgons as they grow extra heads.

Do you mean hydra?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I've taken a few spriggans to mid-level—I find you have to start thinking about getting a decent bow quite soon. Spriggans have poor aptitude for Conjurations and have trouble with food (and hence spell hunger) so you can't rely on the high-level attack spells. They have good Bows aptitude, though, even if they can't use longbows, and with high skill you can do surprising amounts of damage—plus they are fast enough to constantly keep a distance.

 

[tommers]

I've taken a few spriggans to mid-level—I find you have to start thinking about getting a decent bow quite soon. Spriggans have poor aptitude for Conjurations and have trouble with food (and hence spell hunger) so you can't rely on the high-level attack spells. They have good Bows aptitude, though, even if they can't use longbows, and with high skill you can do surprising amounts of damage—plus they are fast enough to constantly keep a distance.

Hmm, I never thought of a bow.

I thought they had a slow metabolism? They can't eat meat (even with gourmand) but I thought they took ages to get hungry.

 

[tommers]

While we're here, who knows how the magic system works? i.e. how does it work out the percentage fail chance? Is it that you need a certain level in one of the types? Or is it easier to cast something which only uses one type as opposed to say mephitic cloud, which is conjuration / poison / air (I think)?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Hmm, I never thought of a bow.

I thought they had a slow metabolism? They can't eat meat (even with gourmand) but I thought they took ages to get hungry.

They do, but spell hunger ignores that, and high level spells cause lots of it.

 

[yield]

Do you mean hydra?

I'm going lala obviously. Sure I fought a gorgon was glad I had a flail but it's the hydras with the extra heads.

Not met a hydra yet then.

Anyone what effect armour encumbrance has on missile weapons?

Cleared the Lair. Levelling much slower now and running low on MP to recharge the wand of healing.

 

[tommers]

Yeah, I didn't get a single scroll of recharging when I had a deep dwarf. What are the chances etc?

Not sure about armour on missile weapons, probably same effect as on melee. Slows down attacks doesn't it?

 

[yield]

Yeah, I didn't get a single scroll of recharging when I had a deep dwarf. What are the chances etc?

I think I've only found one so far!

Not sure about armour on missile weapons, probably same effect as on melee. Slows down attacks doesn't it?

Can't work out what to do next. Haven't got MP to spare recharging wands and need to soften up tough enemies or missile ones.

Was thinking of using a bow?

Going to try the Orc Mines. Permadeath makes me dread continuing as it's the best I've done.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I don't think armour has much if any effect on missile weapons—I've never seen a "you missed because of your armour" message when shooting, but I have loads of times in melee. There's an easy way to tell if it slows actions down: check how much the time counter goes up when shooting with armour on, then take it off, shoot, and check the time.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Things not to do: use a weapon of chaos past a certain point. It's great when you pick up Crazy Yuif's quarterstaff of chaos in the early game—most of the effects are beneficial to you and it can do absurd amounts of damage. The occasional healing of an enemy or hasting them or turning them invisible is manageable as you can just bash them to death anyway.

However, go into the Lair and polymorph a yak... no, try to avoid that. Yaks have high HD and so will tend to turn into even more dangerous monsters. Say, for example, a salamander. When you don't even have rF+. That's not great.

This just emphasises that once you get past the early game, what you need is predictability over power. It becomes way more important to be able to make tactical decisions and to do that you need to know your resources. See also wands of random effects, which are actually quite good early on but useless later on.

 

[tommers]

Trog has a regeneration ability that you can use as a deep dwarf.