Dune - dir. Denis Villeneuve

[ferrelhadley]

I wonder how faithful they will stay to the religious elements in the book.
Having someone turn themselves into a demigod on a religion that takes huge chunks out of Islam may not fly under the radar today as it did in the 80s.

 

[trabuquera]

You are mixing this up with the specific issue of ageing male stars demanding on-screen love interests who could be their daughters due to their vanity. That doesn't apply here because the two lead characters are a mother and son. [...] Villeneuve simply cast an actress who is the age of her character.

I'm not "mixing it up" with the perennial problem of old men/young women mismatches on screen - I am pointing out that the persistent casting of not-very-old actresses as the MOTHERS of characters played by not-much-younger actors, is another facet of generalised sexism in films. Villeneuve cast 'an actress who is the age of her character' - fair enough - but somehow not 'an actor who is the age of HIS character'. See?

Of course Chalamet looks younger than his chronological age (and so does Ferguson in fact!) - and I take your point about needing an actor for the Paul role who looks young but has the acting skills to deal with the job, and to age up as the film progresses. But what I am arguing here is that casting an actress 12 years older than the actor playing HER SON, is that it's another aspect of THE SAME SEXISM. But I do hope to see and enjoy the film all the same.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Erm... except that she's only 12 years older than he is (and fresh faced with it), yet playing his mother.

Jessica Atreides born 10154 AG
Paul Atreides born 10175 AG
The events of Dune 10191 AG (well the move to Arrakis when much of this happens)
That would make her 37.
The actor playing the role is 35.
But at least we are getting the outrage in early.

 

[Reno]

I'm not "mixing it up" with the perennial problem of old men/young women mismatches on screen - I am pointing out that the persistent casting of not-very-old actresses as the MOTHERS of characters played by not-much-younger actors, is another facet of generalised sexism in films. Villeneuve cast 'an actress who is the age of her character' - fair enough - but somehow not 'an actor who is the age of HIS character'. See?

Of course Chalamet looks younger than his chronological age (and so does Ferguson in fact!) - and I take your point about needing an actor for the Paul role who looks young but has the acting skills to deal with the job, and to age up as the film progresses. But what I am arguing here is that casting an actress 12 years older than the actor playing HER SON, is that it's another aspect of THE SAME SEXISM. But I do hope to see and enjoy the film all the same.

One complaint by older actresses has long been that they keep getting offered nothing but mother roles once they get older, when they could be playing the love interest of those ageing male stars who demand far younger actresses at their side.

When actresses play the mothers of adult children, these days they will mostly be of the right age. It happens here and there, when an actor just feels right for the role but there isn't a persistent problem of sexism with casting mothers as you claim. Look at all the mother roles the actresses in their 50s and 60s, who I've listed above, play.

Teenagers however will often get cast with young looking actors in their 20s because it's actually quite hard to find real teenage actors who have the emotional maturity to play a complex lead character and carry a movie. There also are child labour laws which prohibit minors from working more than a certain amount of hours a day which also makes it more practical to cast older actors.

I'm not saying that there isn't a huge problem with sexism in Hollywood, but you've got it the wrong way round in this case.

 

[trabuquera]

Well, I disagree, but in a very civilised way. Let's call a (Fremen?) truce and see how the movie turns out.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The whole cast for this looks excellent. I couldn't think of two better actors than Timothee Chalamet (Call Me by your Name, Lady Bird) and Rebecca Ferguson (Ilsa Faust in the Mission: Impossible movies) as Paul Atreides and Lady Jessica.

No. That's not how you spell Timothy. No. Unacceptable.

 

[DotCommunist]

In terms of book pages, that's about when Paul & Jessica flee the palace in the ornithopter. That'd leave a lot of the fun stuff for the 2nd film...

perhaps stop it where paul first summons and rides a worm. Theres been quite an uncovered passage of time by then iirc, child leto born. That way we get the chani meet and the knife fight with jamis etc, the meeting of jessica and the rev moth embedded with the fremen as part of some long schemes.

Eh, who knows.

 

[Idaho]

The natural break, if you stick with the book chronology, would be when Paul refuses to call out stilgar and becomes leader of the fremen and not head of sietch tabr.

 

[Reno]

No. That's not how you spell Timothy. No. Unacceptable.

He's half French and it's a common French name. The surname might have been a clue.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Its set totally around Paul Atreides character arch, his growth from boy to man to GOD.
The first film will have to do the heavy lifting of world building, introduce the characters and their antagonisms. Your bog standard world building we now all know well.

Spoiler

Also the growth of Paul has to show his weaknesses and vulnerabilities while hinting at what awaits him (Gom Jabbar and yet getting kicked by Gurney).
Then the antagonists (the Harkonen) start to be revealed and he will have obstacles both internal (is his mother a traitor?) and external (the Harkonen spies) to over come.
Then we find ourselves at the big set piece grand finale to episode one where our heroes are at their lowest point, the attack on Arrakis, the escape then the loss of the safety of the Keynes.

Now for the second part you are in a tonally different world of Paul the Fremen where he grows from pampered prince into young warrior, leader and all round bad ass. You then have a lot of space for the resolution to play out at something other than breakneck speed.

 

[DexterTCN]

Oscar Isaacs as the Duke. Good casting, looks like.

Oscar Isaac in Talks to Join Timothee Chalamet in ‘Dune’ Reboot

 

[Crispy]

Please do well enough for the second part to be made. Please please please.

 

[DotCommunist]

they've got someone called Zendaya in for Chani. I don't know her music or screen stuff but on a google search the image looks right. Same with Paul tbf, never heard of him before now

 

[Crispy]

They're coming thick and fast now.
Javier Bardem for Stilgar.

 

[TruXta]

They're coming thick and fast now.
Javier Bardem for Stilgar.

Interesting...

 

[Idaho]

If its really good and popular, everyone will think I'm some kind of kiddie fan boy who has picked my name from a semi obscure character in the first film


Although in fairness that is what I *was* 25 years ago when I picked the username.

 

[TruXta]

If its really good and popular, everyone will think I'm some kind of kiddie fan boy who has picked my name from a semi obscure character in the first film


Although in fairness that is what I *was* 25 years ago when I picked the username.

Not the wildly more well known US state?

 

[Idaho]

Not the wildly more well known US state?

It's only ever been Americans who've thought that... And then only when a reveal that I'm English.

 

[DexterTCN]

Zendaya looks like being Chani.

I'll...er...just put this here just in case.

Zendaya - IMDb

e2a...just saw the previous zendaya post...watching Parcs and Rec whilst posting...yada yada

 

[treefrog]

Holy shit this casting is out of sight.

I discovered this excellent little podcast episode that looks at the use of Islam in Dune. Really interesting perspectives on the White Savior trope, cultural appropriation/appreciation. Well worth half an hour.

The Book of Dune

 

[TruXta]

Everyone is a bit too good looking, but it's Hollywood, wtf did I expect.

 

[DexterTCN]

Hollywood? It's Villeneuve.

Have you seen Prisoners? Arrival?

It's not going to be Hollywood.

This guy did a proper follow-up to BladeRunner.

 

[TruXta]

He's the director. It's Legendary producing, so yes, Hollywood.

 

[TruXta]

And yes, what I've seen of his movies I've generally enjoyed.

 

[Gromit]

Holy shit this casting is out of sight.

I discovered this excellent little podcast episode that looks at the use of Islam in Dune. Really interesting perspectives on the White Savior trope, cultural appropriation/appreciation. Well worth half an hour.

The Book of Dune

I've always seen the fremen as Arabic Moslem types. Not surprised if modern casting drops that for shameless popularity reasons.

I don't know what their perspective on the trope is but in the books it's pretty much acknowledged that the fremen are being used by Paul with their religious belief (manipulated by the Bene Ges) the lever. But as much as it is a tool it's also a runaway freight train that has a life of its own.

 

[DexterTCN]

And yes, what I've seen of his movies I've generally enjoyed.

Ok so you've not seen Prisoners.

Anyway, really looking forward to this.

 

[Crispy]

He's also said in interviews that he learned from BR 2049 that he has to have a more commercial sensibility for Dune. sSta Wars For Grownups I think we're his words.

 

[DotCommunist]

if its wildly successful then I hope for a Pandora Sequence/Destination Void series. A man can dream.

 

[TruXta]

Ok so you've not seen Prisoners.

Anyway, really looking forward to this.

No. I've seen Sicario, Arrival and Bladerunner. For me Arrival was the best out of the three.

 

[DexterTCN]

No. I've seen Sicario, Arrival and Bladerunner. For me Arrival was the best out of the three.

BR is my favourite because BR.

But...Arrival is a masterpiece, I'll not argue with anyone who rates it higher.

Prisoners is on netflix.