Dulwich vs Concord Rangers 25/4/23

[charliepooley]

Picolatas!

In photos: Dulwich Hamlet grind out a 0-0 draw against Concord Rangers in relegation battle, Tues 25th April 2023

Dulwich Hamlet missed a crucial opportunity to secure their escape from relegation as they settled for a lacklustre 0-0 draw against Concord Rangers last night. The outcome was disappointing for Ha…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

Ed have to say your pictures are top notch, quality
Dont think you get enough credit for the stuff you put up

Like the variety as well

 

[Hamlet Pete]

Funnily enough that was the same last fixture for them both last season in the National League. Both teams were relegated. Weymouth won that day too...

 

[scousedom]

Am I right in thinking a two goal win by Weymouth relegates Dover, assuming Dulwich don’t lose?

 

[Bugpowder Dust]

Am I right in thinking a two goal win by Weymouth relegates Dover, assuming Dulwich don’t lose?

I think any Weymouth win relegates Dover, assuming we don't lose.

But there is also a scenario where we lose - say 1-0, and Weymouth win, say 4-0, and we will still be safe and Dover will go down.

Current goal difference:

Dover -24 (48 points)
Dulwich -27 (48 points)
Weymouth -21 (45 points)

 

[Bugpowder Dust]

It's just like when we won the league 10 years ago, there are nine possible combinations of results (W-W, D-L etc), and only one combination sees us relegated - a Dulwich defeat coupled with a Weymouth win.

And as noted above, even in that scenario there is a chance we could still be ok.

 

[PartisanDulwich]

build the wall

 

[PartisanDulwich]

so if Weymouth beat Dover 2-1 and Dulwich draw
Weymouth still go down
but if Weymouth win 2-0 Dover relegated

 

[scousedom]

I think any Weymouth win relegates Dover, assuming we don't lose.

But there is also a scenario where we lose - say 1-0, and Weymouth win, say 4-0, and we will still be safe and Dover will go down.

Current goal difference:

Dover -24 (48 points)
Dulwich -27 (48 points)
Weymouth -21 (45 points)

Ah yes, you’re right. I got the -21 and -24 mixed up in my head.

 

[editor]

Hard not to feel a bit sorry for Concord as they played so well on Tuesday night

 

[barnsleydulwich]

Given some of the crap we've been though I'm not feeling sorry for anyone in this league.

 

[Bugpowder Dust]

Funnily enough that was the same last fixture for them both last season in the National League. Both teams were relegated. Weymouth won that day too...

Strange how things work out. And scary how quickly both have dropped to the bottom of the NLS, which is a lesson for anyone (like me) who says things like 'i don't mind if we go down, means we will be up the top of the league next season'.

 

[Bugpowder Dust]

Given some of the crap we've been though I'm not feeling sorry for anyone in this league.

Me too, on a purely selfish note I want Dover to go down because I've been to their ground and I haven't been to Weymouth.

Interesting how some teams can fly up and down the league pyramid and some stay stuck on the same place forever.

Luton recently went from national League to top of the championship. Forest green look like they have peaked and are about to start sliding down again.

And interesting how some teams go up to a new height and stabilise quickly - like Sutton and Dorking - and some come straight back down, like Maidstone.

 

[scousedom]

Forest green look like they have peaked and are about to start sliding down again.

Upward trajectory will resume once Big Dunc gets the boot .

 

[Pink Panther]

Tuesday's highlights:



I've only watched on a smartphone and there are no replays but the two penalty shouts we were refused look fairly generous to Concord. I've no sympathy for any defender who practically does a star jump in front of an opponent who is poised to cross or shoot, so that looks an absolute stonewaller for me.

The Mills/Porter attack with the covering tackle looks less straightforward than I thought at the time, just great defending.

 

[Alex W]

Disconnected thoughts from the highlights:

1) Two clear penalties that weren't given and the referee blew for FT early to avoid sending a Concord player off. An incompetent and shameful performance from a man clearly terrified to make a big call. Quite frankly, not up to the job, even at this level.

2) From behind the goal it looked like a bad miss from Porter, but actually Mills' ball was a bit off target and he didn't really do anything wrong.

3) Danny Mills doesn't seem comfortable hitting any ball first time, which is frustrating and means he usually ends missing the best opportunity to shoot.

4) We look like we did enough to win that game and were very unlucky. It looks like a better performance than I thought at the time.

5) The Rabble was louder than I can remember them ever being on these highlights

 

[Pink Panther]

An incompetent and shameful performance from a man clearly terrified to make a big call. Quite frankly, not up to the job, even at this level.

I think I'm probably more annoyed about those dodgy calls now than I was at the time. It looks like he was preoccupied with not looking like he was being swayed by the big home crowd. Anywhere else on the pitch and we'd have had a free kick each time, every time.

 

[AveryDave]

The ref couldn't have had a better view of the foul on Lawless. Absolutely ridiculous decision.

 

[Ronnie76]

The ref couldn't have had a better view of the foul on Lawless. Absolutely ridiculous decision.

View attachment 372380

I thought this was a pen on the night but seeing it in slow motion and discussed with another official who said he would’ve booked the player for diving. Was the Concord penalty appeal shown where the player knocked it past the keeper and went down ?

 

[Cyclodunc]

If the highlights were actually filmed by a human and zoomed in more at appropriate times I’d feel more happy to comment on if that was a penalty. The referee’s view couldn’t have been better so I guess maybe he was able to spot that it wasn’t a penalty?

 

[Pink Panther]

I thought this was a pen on the night but seeing it in slow motion and discussed with another official who said he would’ve booked the player for diving. Was the Concord penalty appeal shown where the player knocked it past the keeper and went down ?

Frankly that video isn't sufficiently good enough for VAR purposes, so I'd be a bit worried if any referee was minded to reverse (or recommend reversing) the original decision on that evidence, whether it had been given or not. The screenshot shows the defender with one foot between Lawless's legs and the other stepping over his trailing leg, while the ball is yards away. At best it's a careless challenge that was never going to win the ball.

The Concord penalty shout isn't in the video and I'd be interested to see it again, although I was almost in line with it on the near side, so couldn't have been much closer without being on the pitch and probably had a better view than a camera from the back of the main stand anyway. My view at the time was that Jones pulled back from making a real challenge, realising he couldn't reach the ball, and the forward was looking to go down under any slight contact. I'd put that one in the category of "seen them given" but feel it would have been rather soft. The handball shout simply has to be given in my book. The guy jumps in front of the crosser with both feet off the ground and arms outstretched. He's presenting the widest possible barrier and blocks it with an arm. We probably tend to see what we want to see in these situations

 

[Ronnie76]

Frankly that video isn't sufficiently good enough for VAR purposes, so I'd be a bit worried if any referee was minded to reverse (or recommend reversing) the original decision on that evidence, whether it had been given or not. The screenshot shows the defender with one foot between Lawless's legs and the other stepping over his trailing leg, while the ball is yards away. At best it's a careless challenge that was never going to win the ball.

The Concord penalty shout isn't in the video and I'd be interested to see it again, although I was almost in line with it on the near side, so couldn't have been much closer without being on the pitch and probably had a better view than a camera from the back of the main stand anyway. My view at the time was that Jones pulled back from making a real challenge, realising he couldn't reach the ball, and the forward was looking to go down under any slight contact. I'd put that one in the category of "seen them given" but feel it would have been rather soft. The handball shout simply has to be given in my book. The guy jumps in front of the crosser with both feet off the ground and arms outstretched. He's presenting the widest possible barrier and blocks it with an arm. We probably tend to see what we want to see in these situations

I think the referee has decided he hasn’t given penalties at one end so no way was he going to give ours late in the game. No argument here with the handball, linesman has a better view but one week you’ll get a linesman who is busy and wants to get involved in everything and the next you get one who can’t even watch for a foul throw because he needs to watch the back line for offside instead (those words actually came from a linesman this season). Both our sides have been poor this season but there are enough refereeing decisions that have gone against us that would’ve made it a lot tighter than it was in the end. That old saying of these decisions even themselves out over the season definitely won’t apply to us this season.

 

[Roger D]

I used to officiate. There are many circumstances under which it's impossible to get a good view of a person taking a throw in and keep a close eye on the penultimate defender for offside. As such, foul throws are usually the referees call. The Assistant will usually check for foot position when able to. They will always prioritise catching offside over foul throws, rightly so in my opinion.

Personally I found being an Assistant a much more challenging job than refereeing.

 

[Pink Panther]

I used to officiate. There are many circumstances under which it's impossible to get a good view of a person taking a throw in and keep a close eye on the penultimate defender for offside. As such, foul throws are usually the referees call. The Assistant will usually check for foot position when able to. They will always prioritise catching offside over foul throws, rightly so in my opinion.

Personally I found being an Assistant a much more challenging job than refereeing.

I think the point is you can't be offside from a throw, so why would the linesman need to be watching for that? There must be standard guidance for which official should be watching for specific things at set pieces, I've no idea what the guidance is, but I'd hope all officials reaching this level will be well aware of their responsibilities. Foul throws feel a bit like an illegal bowling action in cricket to me. It can be marginal and as long someone isn't doing it repeatedly, or heaving the ball an unnatural distance, I don't really want to see more players pulled up for them. There are enough delays and stoppages as it is.

Stealing 10-15 yards at a throw is the bigger issue for me. At our home game with Hampton a clearance from their right back from well inside his own half deflected off one of our players, hit the perimeter fence, rolled about 20-25 yards down the touchline passing the linesman on its way. A forward promptly picked it up where it had stopped and threw it from there, and they scored. I couldn't believe the officials allowed it.

The issue of some linesmen wanting to get involved with everything and others ignoring clear fouls a few yards away has always irritated me. I'm convinced some referees must tell their assistants to stick to line calls and not to signal for free kicks and penalties, which is ignorant if the case. They were redesignated "assistant referees" some years ago for a good reason.

 

[Roger D]

There's no standard guidance. Referees have their own preference however it's generally agreed foul throws are for the referee bar illegal foot positions. At a senior level no referee should instruct Assistants to do ball in / out only and I'd expect Assessors to crack down on it. Lower down, with inexperienced Assistants it does happen.

You can't be offside from a throw but that doesn't mean there are no circumstances an Assistant won't prioritise that. Two in particular.

1. If the defensive line is deep and the throw in is near the half way line. You simply won't spot a foot straying slightly over the line but may miss an offside if the receiving player wallops it forwards. Clearly late on in a close game the officials know where the ball will go.

2. In a moody game if you have a scrum of people in / around the penalty mark you would be wise to look in that direction, which also covers the offside question.

 

[Cat Daisy]

There's no standard guidance. Referees have their own preference however it's generally agreed foul throws are for the referee bar illegal foot positions. At a senior level no referee should instruct Assistants to do ball in / out only and I'd expect Assessors to crack down on it. Lower down, with inexperienced Assistants it does happen.

You can't be offside from a throw but that doesn't mean there are no circumstances an Assistant won't prioritise that. Two in particular.

1. If the defensive line is deep and the throw in is near the half way line. You simply won't spot a foot straying slightly over the line but may miss an offside if the receiving player wallops it forwards. Clearly late on in a close game the officials know where the ball will go.

2. In a moody game if you have a scrum of people in / around the penalty mark you would be wise to look in that direction, which also covers the offside question.

Wouldn't have this problem with kick-ins ;-)

 

[Roger D]

One possible explanation for some Assistants being involved more than others is the referees instructions. Some will say flag if you spot something, others say leave it to me and flag if you think I miss something. Personally I told them to flag anything they saw. The down side to that is, if you over-rule the Assistant you'll have players in your face gobbing off - hence why some say only flag if you think I miss something.

The introduction of mics further up the food chain makes it more challenging as people see the Assistant seemingly not react so assume that's what they are supposed to do. In reality, they are probably talking to the referee.