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Dulwich Hamlet fans discuss how to bring the joy back to Champion Hill

tonysingh

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Editor's note: this discussion has been spun out from the Billericay match thread




Tbf if we're attracting that type then it's a other reason for me to be picky as fuck with what games I go to. I'm uneasy around larger more, more pressed in crowds as it is. Chuck in some gammon and I'll just not bother lest I kick off back.

Fuck modern football.
 
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England fans.
It was from behind me. I turned round on hearing it and had a go. But no one would own up.
I’ll be honest today was a shock to me. I’ve been off to the side for a while - literally, taking young kids I’ve been at the side of the pitch. Today for the first time in a couple of years I was back behind the goal. It wasn’t a good experience at all.
In which regard I think I owe people an apology who’ve been saying “it’s gone” and I’d not believed them. Today, it had gone. You were right.
The 'Rabble' vibe vanished some time ago. We used to be a formidable crowd behind the goal - funny, loud, passionate and different - but as the crowds grew bigger, a lot of the things that made Hamlet unique got watered down and some right wankers started to make themselves known. And it's a real bloody shame.
 
I think this club has outgrown me, I have to arrive a 2pm to get a seat which gives me a chance to see the game. I can’t leave that seat or it’s taken. Forget toilets and then you watch defensive performances like that in the first half. Fucking cameras everywhere and every bloody tannoy is about bars 🤦🏼‍♂️

So let’s just celebrate ‘celebrity’ and huge attendances, utterly lost itself in being huge, as someone largely only interested in the football I guess it’s me who is needing something else?

I also see a disconnect between ‘club’ and the football team/Aspire - I don’t see synergy, I don’t see engagement. Maybe the players don’t see fans, just a crowd.

Fuck knows. Change required, maybe I’m the change?

Maybe stick to away games
Maybe stick to Menace games

It’s a sad realisation.
 
Quite a few of us left at half time. The disconnect between the players and the fans is really quite sad. It's become an extension of a Lordship Lane day out. Everyone looks the same. We really do need a rethink on many levels. But that's also on those of us who have a sense of what the club is about. You can't just carp from the sidelines. I wish I had the network and experience to do some outreach into the wider community and make the change I think many of us want to see
 
Reduce capacity to 2k max. Rethink the focus on beer (much as I love it) it's not for everyone and doesn't make it the family friendly vibe we think it is. More local kids coming to games. Emphasise the diversity of South London. Do more to actively show community engagement on match days. Replace the tannoy. Introduce local community groups onto the pitch before the game. Focus on a five mile perimeter of engagement. Fuck "raising awareness" nationally - we have big enough fish to fry in Southwark and Lewisham
 
Reduce capacity to 2k max. Rethink the focus on beer (much as I love it) it's not for everyone and doesn't make it the family friendly vibe we think it is. More local kids coming to games. Emphasise the diversity of South London. Do more to actively show community engagement on match days. Replace the tannoy. Introduce local community groups onto the pitch before the game. Focus on a five mile perimeter of engagement. Fuck "raising awareness" nationally - we have big enough fish to fry in Southwark and Bromley.
Place is important. We know our place and we should own it. It extends beyond the EDT and Franca Manca. Fucking hell.
 
Today was awful for me. But it's also a wake up call and one that I think is beholdent on all of us on this God awful platform to sort out. For DC, yeah?
 
Was thinking about sacking off Dulwich after today and just to go Peckham. But that's lazy and not respectful to Duncan, Mishi and people like Rob and Scutta that saw the possibility of art, community, outreach and friendship that a field and a terrace could offer. Come on. Let's take it back.
 
Today was supposed to be my first home game since lockdown, but I didn’t go. Initially I felt bad as I wanted to be there for Duncan Chapman’s celebration and to see a good friend of mine I haven’t seen since covid. That feeling subsided as reports of a sellout started coming in.

As someone who started going in 2013 and pre covid would attend around 50 games a season, I don’t think I’ve ever been pleased to miss a game.

I loved my early days supporting the club and the fun we had and the life long friendships I’ve made. It had to evolve though. If the crowd numbers were around 500 the club probably wouldn’t exist today.

Something has been lost for a while now though. A major factor has been the disconnect between management/players and fans.

It’s genuinely saddening to read the reports on here about yesterday from people, many of whom are normally so positive about the club.

This is not a post to have a pop at the people who work for Dulwich. They have steered us through some awful times and I know have made sacrifices to keep the club going.

Apologies for the long post. Definitely going to Braintree, soo hope to see you all there
 
Some great posts above. It's a real shame, I've only been going about 5 years so a newbie compared to lots of you on here but it's changed a lot in that time

So happy I was able to get a season ticket again for this season, couldn't wait to get back into it after the last couple of years but I decided not to go today after hearing of the likely attendance

I get that it's a social thing for lots of people but if you actually want to watch the football you have to get there really early for a seat or a decent spot on the railings and then can't move for 3 hours, that's not fun

I understand the club has to get the punters in and sell food and drink to survive but when you're trying to watch the game stood behind groups of people not remotely engaged with the match apart from the odd shout of "come on number 7" it really fucks me off to be honest

I'm not a drinker but even if I was I wouldn't spend 12 quid just to get in to an overcrowded beer garden, unfortunately lots of people clearly love it

Not sure what can change, or even if anything should change, but I'm looking forward to the women's game next Sunday and hopefully the weather turning soon and some of the crowd deciding to stay in the pub on a Saturday afternoon
 
Maybe the Brixton Buzz needs to cast a more critical eye with an actual “why has the rabble Dulwich atmosphere disappeared” news post (and on Twitter) rather than forum posts.
This is not meant to be a shitty comment, more a serious one.
What is currently advertised at DHFC isn’t the reality, so remove Rabble references and Tuscany references etc - that doesn’t exist anymore and probably has only once this season when the old skool & well versed Finn took over an away match early doors.
 
Things change in life, that’s only natural. Whether that change is for the better or worse is in the eye of the beholder.

Some of the reasons for how our club has changed over the last ten or so years are clearly linked to massively positive things - promotions, winning games, and more importantly the exceptional efforts from so many to not only keep the club alive but to be in a position where over 3,000 people want to attend a League game at the start of October, which in any context is remarkable.

Alongside those positive changes have come other things, a lot of which have already been mentioned - such as the experience at the ground on busy days, the make up of the crowds and the growing disconnection between the management/players and supporters.

For some, those ‘side effects’ won’t matter. For some, they won’t even be noticed. But for me, and from the indications here some others as well, the side effects are starting to outweigh the positives. I realise it’s early days in this season but I’m already considering this year being my last as a season ticket holder, whilst the current conditions maintain anyway.

I also recognise that I haven’t got a divine right to expect things to stay the way I want them to be. I’ve never invested even a tiny amount of the time and effort others have in our club to think I could or should be able to begin to influence that, and I’d hazard that the majority of people there yesterday enjoyed themselves.

I’ll be sad to personally lose something I’ve loved for close to a decade (still very much Nouveau), but it’s on me to find something else to replace that whilst many, many others continue to enjoy it.
 
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The people in charge of the club hate to be told they are wrong so much so that they have contempt for the opinions expressed on here.

All of you will have seen it before as they expressed utter disdain for the people that care about the club to discuss on it here.

But the real issue is that they cannot handle any actual internal difference of opinion so they surround themselves with yes-men.

The people that you see behind the goal that have taken over were brought there by the Chairman and they pushed out others because that is their way. They now have the directors box to safely hide in to dodge the outcome of their decisions.
 
The people in charge of the club hate to be told they are wrong so much so that they have contempt for the opinions expressed on here.

All of you will have seen it before as they expressed utter disdain for the people that care about the club to discuss on it here.

But the real issue is that they cannot handle any actual internal difference of opinion so they surround themselves with yes-men.

The people that you see behind the goal that have taken over were brought there by the Chairman and they pushed out others because that is their way. They now have the directors box to safely hide in to dodge the outcome of their decisions.
What an absolute load of old rubbish.
 
Ok, explain and give evidence for this ridiculous statement

You have seen the chairman standing behind the goal with his friends?

So he brought them there and they brought their friends and so on and so on.

And now they stand about talking about their businesses.

What have you seen behind the goal?
 
Things change in life, that’s only natural. Whether that change is for the better or worse is in the eye of the beholder.

Some of the reasons for how our club has changed over the last ten or so years are clearly linked to massively positive things - promotions, winning games, and more importantly the exceptional efforts from so many to not only keep the club alive but to be in a position where over 3,000 people want to attend a League game at the start of October, which in any context is remarkable.

Alongside those positive changes have come other things, a lot of which have already been mentioned - such as the experience at the ground on busy days, the make up of the crowds and the growing disconnection between the management/players and supporters.

For some, those ‘side effects’ won’t matter. For some, they won’t even be noticed. But for me, and from the indications here some others as well, the side effects are starting to outweigh the positives. I realise it’s early days in this season but I’m already considering this year being my last as a season ticket holder, whilst the current conditions maintain anyway.

I also recognise that I haven’t got a divine right to expect things to stay the way I want them to be. I’ve never invested even a tiny amount of the time and effort others have in our club to think I could or should be able to begin to influence that, and I’d hazard that the majority of people there yesterday enjoyed themselves.

I’ll be sad to personally lose something I’ve loved for close to a decade (still very much Nouveau), but it’s on me to find something else to replace that whilst many, many others continue to enjoy it.

Completely echo this. I haven't actually been to a game or pre-season friendly this season. I've been supporting DHFC since the age of 6 and so it's the first time in 22/23 seasons I haven't turned up to a game by August, let alone October.

The pandemic has obviously broken the habit, but I just don't have any appetite to come back. I've lost interest and, frankly, faith in the direction the club is going in. I'm not someone who's bothered by a packed CH (but completely underrstand it ruins the experience for others); what does bother me is the incessant stream of turgid, unexciting, performances, and enormous disconnection between the players and management, and fans. Last weekend, I did the unthinkable and went to see Chelsea v Southampton. There were lots of knobheads, yes, but it was actually great to watch some entertaining football.

Take the other night, for example. Away on Tues night in the arse end of Croydon, dismal performance against opposition several divisions below us, just about squeeze through to the next round thanks to a penalty shootout, and the players couldn't even be bothered to come over and thank the fans for a) turning up b) paying to bloody be there and c) enduring 90 mins of shite. That is absolutely abysmal and everyone responsible for that, the club, management, players themselves, should be ashamed of themselves. That's exactly the kind of dismissive arrogance that alienates fans in professional football and now it seems it's found it's way here.

One of the best things about the Craig Edwards era was that regardless of result the players would come over at the end and shake your hand. Didn't matter if we'd been battered 5-0, or battered someone 5-0 ourselves. It brought a connection and bond between players, management, and fans, and it's the only time I've felt such a strong connection to a Dulwich team. It made me go to every home game, sit in cars for two hours to Dover, freeze my arse off on a Tuesday night at Chipstead, all without hesitation.

You read a lot on here that a lot of the new fans don't pay attention to the game or don't even know the names of the players - but why should they? They treat it like an outside bar with some football in the background because that's exactly what it's become. When players score, they don't high five or jump into the crowd, they don't engage in any way. We've already established that applauding the fans after a crap performance against Croydon Athletic is a bit too much to ask for. It feels like we are expected to turn up to fund the Gavin Rose football project - hand over your money, drink beer, talk to your mates, but don't interfere or expect anything back from the football itself.

The club's survival is of paramount importance, more so than my own satisfaction, and the crowd's guarantee that, so I'm actually delighted we got 3,343 yesterday. But if this is the way the club wants to go, then fine, but I've come to a point where I'm just finding other stuff to do at the weekend.

(Sorry, that was miles longer than previously planned.)
 
You have seen the chairman standing behind the goal with his friends?

So he brought them there and they brought their friends and so on and so on.

And now they stand about talking about their businesses.

What have you seen behind the goal?

Agree with you on a lot of things, BIG, but can't agree with this. I regularly criticise the running of the club and his decisions, but I have the utmost respect for Ben. He's done an enormous amount of work for us and I don't feel as if he, or any of his friends, have shoved me out the way.
 
Agree with you on a lot of things, BIG, but can't agree with this. I regularly criticise the running of the club and his decisions, but I have the utmost respect for Ben. He's done an enormous amount of work for us and I don't feel as if he, or any of his friends, have shoved me out the way.

Well you shouldn’t have utmost respect for him. Why are the current shareholders of the club the current shareholders? Because they feel they have the right.

And you may not feel that way but the 2000 people that have no interest in the football are his people.
 
I decided to go last minute and expected a big crowd with the international break and cracking weather. I didn't expect to see people with Dulwich Hamlet scarves walking away from the ground.

Despite signs hastily plastered up saying "sold out" I joined the long queue anyway and paid on the gate, no one was being turned away at the gate as long as you had a debit card in your pocket.

The next 30 minutes were spent in a painfully slow moving queue for the bar in the clubhouse. Whilst there seemed to be enough barstaff, it was clear these kids haven't got much experience pulling pints, hopefully they'll get up to speed soon. So far I had spent £32 and seen no football because it was half time.

It actually didn't feel overly packed behind the goal and I did slowly start to enjoy the day. The atmosphere was decent i thought, and the sun beating down made it feel like we actually might be in Tuscuny after all. As already mentioned I missed half the football due to queues but it does puzzle me how a club with these big crowds can't push on and beat poor teams like this, who were bottom of the league before the match yesterday
 
sadly not a great afternoon at Champion Hill, the result was literally appalling, unlike the opposition we cannot crystallise on created chances. I don't really understand why.

In terms of the attendance, I am delighted for the club from a financial perspective, but the reality for me at least was it was a thoroughly unpleasant afternoon.

I didn't bother with the bar or the WC queues - and judging by the lads pissing in Sainsburys car park whilst I was unlocking my bike after the game, nor did others, but in a slightly different way. I assume they were away supporters, but whoever they were it doesn't make for a good look, not what I feel the club has projected for years.

Pleased to see an upcoming Tuesday game, and wish we had more of these for obvious reasons. Will probably look to attend more women's fixtures if this carries on. Its a shame, I'm a passionate Season Ticket holder, but there is a practical and comfortable limit to the no's.

Also the 50:50 draw - £300 is all that it raised from that crowd? I can only assume many don't see the benefit of supporting the club other than via the bar.

All in all an afternoon that was full of promise and anticipation, but delivered the opposite.

pa
 
The football was dreadful and the atmosphere was dreadful. I haven’t like home games for a while but I go because I support the football club.

Have been going for the last 16 years and I’m really not enjoying going to the home games at all anymore.

There are too many people that come to the games nowadays and either a) only go for the bar, or b) don’t end up watching the football and stand with their backs to the game (which probably wasn’t a bad idea for yesterday’s performance).

I left at HT and is the first time I’ve ever done so, but if we put that level of shit in again I won’t be rushing back to Champion Hill.
 
Sorry, another one who saw the "sold out" messages and decided that the journey via packed / cancelled trains to have a 50/50 chance of getting a good view of the game and spending forever queuing for beer / toilets was not an afternoon well spent. Sounds like I made the right call.
That's without mentioning the standard of football - I'm not sure we are much worse than any other team. It is just an ugly league with little individuality and a lot of anti-football (I was at that Maidstone v Concorde games a few weeks ago). At least at Maidstone (and Tooting) you could see what was happening!
 
I want to defend Ben on this. As others have said, and I agree, his contribution to saving the club and putting it on an even footing, and to taking on some of the twisted vested interests in the League, has been immense. I respectfully don't agree with the "yes men" point; I think that's a disservice to the other members of the Board, who I wouldn't characterise in that way. For example, the first Trust Board member to be on the Club Board (after the Trust shareholding was increased) was Duncan Chapman. To my recollection, Ben actively requested it be him, and the last thing you could accuse DC of was being a yes man.

I understand and respect the view - and agree with it - that football clubs shouldn't be owned by people or companies or countries but by fans groups. In the real world however that's not often the case. Ben has the right, in my opinion, to be in the position he is because of the huge risk he took on in coming to the rescue, when no one else was prepared to take that risk. If we must have an owner, I would choose Ben above all others; if we are ever in a position where we are fan owned and run, in some kind of community ownership structure or something, the first person I would want to stand for Chair would be Ben.

And on yesterday, I want to share that on the way out I saw Ben and had a go at him. Something I'm not proud of, and have apologised for. I won't share the details of that apology and explanation of my feelings, nor of his reply, but I will say it has left me confident the Club share the concerns about overcrowding, and subsequent pressure on fan experience, and want to do something about it. I agree with everything MrFouldsy said above, and think the right thing to do is fight hard to reclaim the day and restate what we want fan culture at the Club to be - and I think the Club will support that.

Finally I do want to add that in saying all the above I do acknowledge that I don't really have the right to express an opinion. I very much believe that fans are not equal - those who have been going the longest and most often have the right to speak first, and to be heard. As a mere seven year veteran I'm far down that pecking order. In fact I realise that I may well be to many of you what the day-trippers of yesterday were to me. I am very sorry if that has been / is the case, but in wanting to get back the kind of fan experience that I first found when I first came along hopefully it's understood that I'm paying those who went before a huge tribute in trying to get back what they built.
 
I agree with everything MrFouldsy said above, and think the right thing to do is fight hard to reclaim the day and restate what we want fan culture at the Club to be - and I think the Club will support that.
I understand the sentiment, but I’m not sure I can work out who or what you’d be fighting - especially as you might be in the minority now. Thousands of people are going back every home game - it’s possible the echo chamber of this forum is distorting our view of that.

And there remains the growing distance between the management/players and supporters. That’s been going on for so long now it seems entirely intentional - unless they’ve got a desire to change that, how do you force them to?
 
I understand the sentiment, but I’m not sure I can work out who or what you’d be fighting - especially as you might be in the minority now. Thousands of people are going back every home game - it’s possible the echo chamber of this forum is distorting our view of that.

And there remains the growing distance between the management/players and supporters. That’s been going on for so long now it seems entirely intentional - unless they’ve got a desire to change that, how do you force them to?

Echo Chamber of the forum? I must be missing all the consensus. What about the echo chamber of the board? Who said no to the Peter Crouch documentary for example.
 
Echo Chamber of the forum? I must be missing all the consensus. What about the echo chamber of the board? Who said no to the Peter Crouch documentary for example.
Do you think the views on here represent the majority of people who attended the game yesterday?
 
The football was dreadful and the atmosphere was dreadful. I haven’t like home games for a while but I go because I support the football club.

Have been going for the last 16 years and I’m really not enjoying going to the home games at all anymore.

There are too many people that come to the games nowadays and either a) only go for the bar, or b) don’t end up watching the football and stand with their backs to the game (which probably wasn’t a bad idea for yesterday’s performance).

I left at HT and is the first time I’ve ever done so, but if we put that level of shit in again I won’t be rushing back to Champion Hill.
Yes, it saddens me that this is our new reality. I love the fact that we get big crowds, but the lack of atmosphere and chanting at games, added to the seemingly growing disconnect between players/management and the supporters is making going to home games much less appealing. This disconnect will drive ardent fans away in the medium term and as the relationship deteriorates - as it clearly is at the moment - I think this will eventually start to affect our attendances too. We have to remember that the main reason the club has grown is because of its passionate fans and community ethos; it can easily go into decline again if that is lost. I really think Gavin and the team need to up their game in terms of how they relate to supporters. They need to remember that we're paying their wages and they're not Premier League primadonnas! I'm not sure if the players come and chat with the fans in the bar after games? They really need to be doing that kind of stuff every week to build rapport with the fans. They also ought to be acknowledging the fans in the ground at the end of games. Even Premier league players do that!!

The new ground, which will have stepped terracing on 3 sides, ought to make the sight lines much better, but for the time being I think we should set the our ground capacity at somewhere between 2,500-3,000. This would still allow for big crowds, but would allow us a bit of room to move.
Also the 50:50 draw - £300 is all that it raised from that crowd? I can only assume many don't see the benefit of supporting the club other than via the bar.
If that's all it's raising, perhaps we should ditch it and focus our energies elsewhere. With the attendances and bar takings we get, £300 is a drop in the ocean.

Well you shouldn’t have utmost respect for him. Why are the current shareholders of the club the current shareholders? Because they feel they have the right.

And you may not feel that way but the 2000 people that have no interest in the football are his people.
As far as I understand, anyone who wanted to could buy shares in the club when the share issue was made a few years ago. I doubt they're making any money on their investment. I think it's really harsh to criticise the chairman for bringing his friends to football matches; I think it's great that he loves the club enough to invite and include others in what he's doing and join the fans behind the goal. How many club chaimen do that? It's very easy to criticise others just because they are different to us - from a different social class or with different beliefs - and such criticism is nearly always destructive. I honestly think Ben is trying to build a united community club and he can't do everything on his own.
The issue with 'supporters' not being engaged with the game and the resulting effect on the atmoshere is huge, and it will leave old skool passionate fans incredibly frustrated. We don't seem to have many leaders in the crowd or a core grouop of supporters to start chants these days. Why is that and what can we do about it?
 
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