Dulwich Hamlet and Coronavirus

[scousedom]

Greater regionalisation (if that’s the word) higher up the pyramid has to make sense, both from a costs and a disease spread point of view.
Also I think the leagues need to put in place strict rules for how things are decided in the event of interruption so everyone knows going in what the protocol is. Eg for a 42 game season you might say: less than 10 games played, void it: 10-20 played get to 21 and call it; 21-31 played call it as at 21; 31+ played complete it. This would also need the fixtures to be changed so you play everyone once in the first half and second half, but that should happen anyway imo.

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

I know this isn't directly related to us, and this has probably been said/written to spur the FA and Premier League into action, but interesting to see the Huddersfield chairman predict that 50-60 clubs could go bust because of this pandemic.

Huddersfield owner Phil Hodgkinson warns '50 or 60 clubs' could go bust

The English football pyramid will be destroyed unless the game starts to plan beyond the 2019-20 season, says Huddersfield owner Phil Hodgkinson.

www.bbc.co.uk

He doesn't specify if he just means league clubs, or if he's including non-league, but I wonder what that will mean for the clubs that survive if there are wholesale closures? Will they have to restructure the leagues?

I would be surprised if it does lead to the numbers that he mentions because I think the PL will finally have to part with some of it's vast sums of wealth, but I do wonder if there's enough money to save 50 clubs from going bang.

 

[B.I.G]

Let them go bust. Why should the premier league spend money on not only funding its own player’s unnecessarily high wages but also the unnecessarily high wages of players lower down the pyramid.

 

[Roger D]

Been contacted by a Shots fan I know. Apparently the league have told the club's that they won't be restarting on August 8th and that the season will not start until spectators can be admitted.

Not exactly a surprise.

 

[Nivag]

Been contacted by a Shots fan I know. Apparently the league have told the club's that they won't be restarting on August 8th and that the season will not start until spectators can be admitted.

Not exactly a surprise.

I'm guessing it's harder for the lower league clubs to enforce a isolation of players for all the games and get them tested regularly.
If that's not the problem then the FA could give all the club's a budget to setup an online stream of the games and get revenue from that.

 

[Stuart Fordyce]

I'm guessing it's harder for the lower league clubs to enforce a isolation of players for all the games and get them tested regularly.
If that's not the problem then the FA could give all the club's a budget to setup an online stream of the games and get revenue from that.

Given lads at our level probably all have second jobs then it's likely a lot harder. Plus as most have smaller squads (barring our cast of thousands), you could get a few with COVID in the squad and face the issue of teams not being able to fulfill their fixtures.

 

[Nivag]

Given lads at our level probably all have second jobs then it's likely a lot harder. Plus as most have smaller squads (barring our cast of thousands), you could get a few with COVID in the squad and face the issue of teams not being able to fulfill their fixtures.

Get ya boots cleaned, you could be needed!!

 

[scousedom]

Been contacted by a Shots fan I know. Apparently the league have told the club's that they won't be restarting on August 8th and that the season will not start until spectators can be admitted.

Not exactly a surprise.

Hopefully the League will use the time to agree a protocol for how to establish League positions in the event of future curtailed seasons so you don't get weeks and months of uncertainty, brinkmanship, media leaks etc. You can kind of understand them not having a plan in place last year (as no other league in the world seemed to), but to start a new season without agreeing a process would be unforgiveable.
As I said above, I'd favour a system where for a 42 game season you might say: less than 10 games played, void it: 10-20 played get to 21 and call it; 21-31 played call it as at 21; 31+ played complete it. And along with that, change the scheduling so you play everyone once in the first half and second half of the season.

 

[editor]

I really can't see any kind of crowded sports events taking place in the next four months, minimum - probably longer.

 

[Roger D]

It may be worth noting the wording seems to be when crowds are admitted and not when capacity crowds can be admitted.

I just wonder if non league football may try to return with reduced capacities (blocking off seats, reducing turnstile queues, outside bars not inside etc.) If so, it would be a bigger challenge for the Hamlet than most non league teams given the crowd levels. Clubs will be keen to earn some revenue and this route may appeal to many.

I stress that is speculation, I have no inside knowledge. I certainly won't be surprised if the likes of the Combined Counties League are playing before the Hamlet. (Possibly without Jersey. Even if teams can play, transport to away games may be a challenge with limited capacity on buses, potential restrictions on car sharing etc, again pointing to geographically limited leagues being in a better place.)

 

[Cyclodunc]

Virtual. Reality.

Problem solved.

 

[Stuart Fordyce]

Get ya boots cleaned, you could be needed!!

Haven't played 90 minutes in a long time...had thought at 36 with 2 Cruciate bursts behind me I would not be needed, but might have to get back in training!

 

[blueheaven]

It may be worth noting the wording seems to be when crowds are admitted and not when capacity crowds can be admitted.

I just wonder if non league football may try to return with reduced capacities (blocking off seats, reducing turnstile queues, outside bars not inside etc.) If so, it would be a bigger challenge for the Hamlet than most non league teams given the crowd levels. Clubs will be keen to earn some revenue and this route may appeal to many.

I stress that is speculation, I have no inside knowledge. I certainly won't be surprised if the likes of the Combined Counties League are playing before the Hamlet. (Possibly without Jersey. Even if teams can play, transport to away games may be a challenge with limited capacity on buses, potential restrictions on car sharing etc, again pointing to geographically limited leagues being in a better place.)

Even if all of these issues can be overcome, players are only going to be able to actually play the games if they're being regularly tested - are non-league clubs really going to be able to afford to do that? Personally I find it very hard to see any contact sports re-starting for many months to come, other than at the highest levels where there's more money sloshing around. I don't see how any non-league, youth or any sort of grassroots football is going to be possible.

 

[Roger D]

The current guidance from Hampshire FA is that they hope grassroots football can resume training in early September with competitive football late September/early October. I presume this is based on FA advice but can't be sure.

Clearly that is best case scenario and it may move back. Those dates certainly wouldn't include DHFC.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Even if all of these issues can be overcome, players are only going to be able to actually play the games if they're being regularly tested - are non-league clubs really going to be able to afford to do that? Personally I find it very hard to see any contact sports re-starting for many months to come, other than at the highest levels where there's more money sloshing around. I don't see how any non-league, youth or any sort of grassroots football is going to be possible.

I could see actually playing games being deemed acceptably low risk much sooner, through some combination of scientific evidence and Boris Johnson's crossing his fingers and winging it approach. It might involve changing outside or something but I think purely amateur level games could be back fairly soon. Lower league/upper non-league is probably the hardest level to get going though because they're dependent on the crowds, there's no TV or very little TV income and players aren't playing for free. And tbh at the level of clubs like Dulwich if there isn't a crowd then what's the point anyway? Whose benefit is it for?

 

[Stuart Fordyce]

Even if all of these issues can be overcome, players are only going to be able to actually play the games if they're being regularly tested - are non-league clubs really going to be able to afford to do that? Personally I find it very hard to see any contact sports re-starting for many months to come, other than at the highest levels where there's more money sloshing around. I don't see how any non-league, youth or any sort of grassroots football is going to be possible.

In Scotland the SFA appear to have got a wealthy benefactor to cover the cost of the testing. Think he's stumping up about £2 million. Do the English FA know any city boys into non-league football?

 

[pompeydunc]

The current guidance from Hampshire FA is that they hope grassroots football can resume training in early September with competitive football late September/early October. I presume this is based on FA advice but can't be sure.

Clearly that is best case scenario and it may move back. Those dates certainly wouldn't include DHFC.

That's odd. London FA advice is permitting groups of six to train together as of start of this month, while maintaining social distancing. Multiple groups of six are permitted too, so you can split squad into different groups and be on same site. They have not said anything about a possible restart date, but the CEO is part of the National FA's project restart group. Apparently, the National League are making plans for a restart in parallel to this, and the expectation is that other lower leagues will take the outcome of this as their lead.

 

[Roger D]

I think the London FA statement is possibly based on the government paper dated, from memory, May 25th that applies to elite athletes.

The Hampshire FA statement is aimed at non elite athletes.

Either that or there's a bit of confusion out there. Which wouldn't be totally surprising.

 

[AveryDave]

Seeing more and more players being signed or retained in the National leagues and beyond in the pyramid - some dating back weeks. Without knowing when football at those levels is going to be able to return it seems crazy that teams are committing to salaries and costs when there's no guarantee as to when they'll be in a position to generate revenues again.

I'm wondering whether clauses are being added into contracts to set a salary dependency on actually playing games (if that's even allowable), or less prudent clubs are banking on bailouts if they run into trouble perhaps?

 

[Pink Panther]

Seeing more and more players being signed or retained in the National leagues and beyond in the pyramid - some dating back weeks. Without knowing when football at those levels is going to be able to return it seems crazy that teams are committing to salaries and costs when there's no guarantee as to when they'll be in a position to generate revenues again.

I'm wondering whether clauses are being added into contracts to set a salary dependency on actually playing games (if that's even allowable), or less prudent clubs are banking on bailouts if they run into trouble perhaps?

Contracts have an elastic finish date to allow for participation or otherwise in the play-offs, so presumably they can be worded to commece on the first day of the league season. Whoever you sign for, no one else in the same league (or probably any other English league except the Premier League) will be starting any earlier and you can probably have a release clause in the event of a player getting an offer from overseas.

 

[Roger D]

I believe contracts signed for 2020/21 now only come into effect 30 days before the official restart date so no money is going out now, unless a signing on fee is involved. (Not true for players signing short term contracts to finish 2019/20 with their current employers where they are playing on.) 30 days seems to be the norm but I think the FA also accept 15 and 45 days.

Quite how clubs are able to make any sort of realistic budget right now seems to be a very legitimate question.

There will be a lot of players dropping down levels in the immediate future as wage levels above drop (making part time more appealing) or simply due to clubs reducing the size of their squad. I'm surprised so many players and clubs are committing this early

 

[Al Crane]

Worth having a look at Ollie Bayliss' Twitter timeline as he's done a pretty good job of keeping up to date with what he understands is going on in non league. Today's update suggests some matters which affect National South.



Further update:

 

[Roger D]

A friend at Shots is hearing the league may start in September even if it is behind closed doors or with slashed attendances. (An un-named league member told the Beeb that with current rules they would have to cut capacity by 94%.)

Utter madness if true. It seems protecting the promotion / relegation link to the EFL may be considered more important than the financial safety of the league members.

I sincerely hope this turns out to be erroneous information.

Edited to make clear the comment was from a Shots fan who heard a whisper and not s Shots official.

 

[Roger D]

A September start with limited crowds is being flagged by a few journalists now. It looks like there may be something in this

 

[Pink Panther]

A friend at Shots is hearing the league may start in September even if it is behind closed doors or with slashed attendances. (An un-named league member told the Beeb that with current rules they would have to cut capacity by 94%.)

So if this is correct we could be restricted to admitting no more than around 200 spectators, i.e. approximately 6% of a 3,300 capacity. I guess as a 5 year season ticket holder (with three seasons left to run) I would be guaranteed admission, but it wouldn't be much fun from a personal point of view. How on earth is the club supposed to finance itself under those conditions when we budgeted for (and achieved) an attendance of ten times that figure this season? We'd be harder hit than anyone else. Only Maidstone had an average attendance of much more than half ours and they have a larger ground, although even they would be limited to around 300 under the same rule. It would be completely unviable, clubs wouldn't be able to pay players at all without the support of a sugar daddy.

Most clubs face a struggle to attract more supporters in order to break even as it is. It's just not worth restarting until we can fill the grounds properly, and that surely applies to every level below the Premier League.

 

[Nivag]

We could always do what Trump is doing for his rallies and sign a disclaimer..

 

[Roger D]

The % reduction would vary by ground design. The fact one club faces a 94% cut doesn't mean Dulwich do.

However; I think it's clear that unless the 2m rule goes the reduction would be substantial and there's no likelihood of the club being permitted to admit the typical crowd seen in recent times.

As for how clubs are supposed to make it work economically. I don't think the authorities care. This is being done to preserve the promotion / relegation link to the EFL which seems to be more important to them than the solvency of member clubs.

If true, it's madness.

 

[Pink Panther]

The % reduction would vary by ground design. The fact one club faces a 94% cut doesn't mean Dulwich do.

However; I think it's clear that unless the 2m rule goes the reduction would be substantial and there's no likelihood of the club being permitted to admit the typical crowd seen in recent times.

As for how clubs are supposed to make it work economically. I don't think the authorities care. This is being done to preserve the promotion / relegation link to the EFL which seems to be more important to them than the solvency of member clubs.

If true, it's madness.

This 2 metre rule thing is madness. I live ten minutes walk from Zone 1 in Central London. I literally haven't touched another human being in 3 months. I haven't actually met anyone I really know in that time. I'm mentally cracking up.

People can't live their lives without going within 2 metres of strangers. ​

Sod coronavirus, I'm having a mental breakdown. One of my closest friends was sectioned last month after taking an overdose. People have been dying from viruses for years, thousands of people die from "normal" flu each year. Idiots go to work, or the pub, or anywhere else, coughing and sneezing on buses and trains and spreading potentially fatal germs. It doesn't need a massive lockdown, it just needs everyone to be sensible and considerate.

 

[TonyWalt]

Hopefully our government will come into line with the WHO Advice, adopted by many other countries who have handled the virus much better than the UK.
Reducing it to 1m would mean we could at least get past the turnstile operators without breaking the guidance!

 

[Cat Daisy]

So if this is correct we could be restricted to admitting no more than around 200 spectators, i.e. approximately 6% of a 3,300 capacity. I guess as a 5 year season ticket holder (with three seasons left to run) I would be guaranteed admission, but it wouldn't be much fun from a personal point of view. How on earth is the club supposed to finance itself under those conditions when we budgeted for (and achieved) an attendance of ten times that figure this season? We'd be harder hit than anyone else. Only Maidstone had an average attendance of much more than half ours and they have a larger ground, although even they would be limited to around 300 under the same rule. It would be completely unviable, clubs wouldn't be able to pay players at all without the support of a sugar daddy.

Most clubs face a struggle to attract more supporters in order to break even as it is. It's just not worth restarting until we can fill the grounds properly, and that surely applies to every level below the Premier League.

At the next level down, a lot of clubs might work in theory if it was 10% of a 3300 capacity (or even a higher %age if we see the 1 metre distancing forced through). But in practice it will be about the detail of ensuring distancing behind the goal, in the bar, in the toilets, etc without paying a fortune for extra staff / security.
But, yes, clubs who have been successful in attracting supporters get penalised for that success. And if the business model is based on having the place packed out, then the business model will have to change. And that means player numbers and player wages. There will be some interesting chats behind closed doors! Maybe a return to amateur football?