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Dowsing

Do you believe dowsing for water works?

  • Total voters
    33
nogojones said:
That's a report of a paper (not the paper), so it would be uuseful to read the whole document before trying to make an informed decision. However that report was frrom 1998. Much done in the way of peer reviewing this work in the last 20 years?
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I linked the article above.

It's not a proper peer reviewed paper. It's from the "Journal of Scientific Exploration":
The society's magazine, the Journal of Scientific Exploration, was established to provide a scientific forum for ufology, parapsychology and cryptozoology, having published research articles, essays, book reviews and letters on those and many other topics that are largely ignored in mainstream journals.
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Society for Scientific Exploration - Wikipedia
 
Mrs Miggins said:
I can't believe you've posted that one article AGAIN Ralph Llama :D

If someone proved somehow that dowsing did actually work and could explain the mechanism by which it worked I'd be the first one to say "well bugger me sideways - how very fascinating". But it's not going to be possible to even begin to explain that mechanism until it can be replicated under controlled conditions because how else could it be studied properly and eventually understood?

Until that happens, it's a person with 2 sticks wandering around going "here....I reckon it's here".
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I posted that again and again because people(who didn`t read the thread) asked for it again and again. The point you make about controlled conditions has already been dealt with in the thread Controlled conditions don`t have to be contained to a lab. As I mentioned earlier.... because the mechanism is not understood you might remove it when entering the lab.
I`m not pretending that there is conclusive proof that it works ... I am saying there is not conclusive proof that its all a load of wank.
:p

Signal 11 said:
The claims about Sri Lanka don't come from experiments. Those are Schröter's own claims about himself. Schröter was a water engineer working for the German government’s overseas aid agency, who claimed that he used dowsing "in addition to conventional methods of prospecting for water". Betz says that Schröter's claims convinced him and so he wrote them up as an article.

Since anecdote isn't taken seriously in science that didn't convince anyone. So Betz decided, correctly, that he should do a proper controlled study. That was the Munich study mentioned above, which as you've accepted, showed that there was nothing in it after all:
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FFS learn to read

Researchers analyzed the successes and failures of dowsers in attempting to locate water at more than 2000 sites in arid regions of Sri Lanka, Zaire, Kenya, Namibia and Yemen over a 10-year period. To do this, researchers teamed geological experts with experienced dowsers and then set up a scientific study group to evaluate the results.
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Sorry, WHAT PART OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY GROUP DON`T YOU UNDERSTAND ?

spanglechick said:
Science is very happy to say it doesn't know stuff (e.g. - why placebos work on animals), and also change its collective mind in the face of evidence. If science is able to observe dowsing under any conditions that can then be repeated, science will embrace it. It would be beyond cool to have observed another type of natural force. Nobel prizewinning stuff.
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That maybe the case for science but it is not the case for U75 posters.
 
Ralph Llama said:
Sorry, WHAT PART OF SCIENTIFIC STUDY GROUP DON`T YOU UNDERSTAND ?
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Schröter told his story to Betz and Betz wrote it up in the UFO journal. The journalist may well have described that as a "scientific study group", but that doesn't make it one.
 
Oh...and for those who don't want to click on the link..
It's from The New Civil Engineer. MAGAZINE online version. A mag with quite a long and well respected history too.

Here is an excerpt.

"The electrostatic explanation ties in with the likely presence of varying electrostatic fields around pipes, cables, voids and bodies of water. It may be that forward motion will also play a part in the response of the rods to the fields that are present.

"The divining rod is performing a similar function to the gold leaf electroscope used during school physics to demonstrate electrostatic effects. The charges on the rods cause a response in relation to the charges on the object. Like charges repel and opposite charges attract to influence the alignment that the rods are trying to take up. It was noted that if the dowser removed his or her shoes, their sensitivity often increased, indicating the importance of electrical continuity with the ground.

"Some work has been published (www.connect.ab.ca/~tylosky/) supporting the electrostatic explanation and providing a convincing argument as to why one hand (the right) is sometimes more responsive than the other. The existence and detection of electrostatic fields associated with underground features is being researched at Nottingham Trent University with the intention of developing a scientific instrument, operating independently of the human body, to assist the geotechnical engineer in locating underground features.

Conclusions

"Most people, but not all, are able to generate a reaction in divining rods relating to the presence of underground features such as cables, metal and plastic pipes, buried tanks, foundations, trenches, large tree roots, voids/cavities and bodies of water.The control and understanding of the response seems to improve with practice.

"The reaction is explained in terms of electrostatics and the rods aligning themselves with the various electrostatic fields present around the underground features.

"Limitations are its dependence on operator sensitivity and the presence of electrostatic fields to relate the object to the divining rods. It should not be used as a substitute for locating services in consultation with the statutory authorities before any excavation. However it is a very cheap, and often remarkably effective (and entertaining! ) way of making a preliminary 'geophysical' appraisal of a site before more detailed geophysical and intrusive investigation work.

"Acknowledgements

"The enthusiastic participation and support of the delegates on the part-time MSc course in geotechnical engineering design and management at Nottingham Trent University is much appreciated by the authors.

"References

"Grounds AC (1996).Dowsing as a tool for location of underground services.BEng Dissertation, Ref ES/96, Boots Library, Nottingham Trent University.

"Hansen GP (1982).Dowsing - a review of experimental research.J Soc Psychical Research 51 (792) 343- 367.

"Killip I (1984).Detecting geophysical anomalies at construction sites by dowsing.Land and mineral surveying 2 (12),633-644.

"Wilcock J (1994).Royal Forest of Dean caving symposium. www-sop.inria.fr/agos-sophia/sis/dowsing/dowsdean.html



It's not anything to do with woo woo...think gold spectroscopy and static....

Good night everybody....:D

Bzzzzz bzzzzz
 
Last edited:
Signal 11 said:
Schröter told his story to Betz and Betz wrote it up in the UFO journal. The journalist may well have described that as a "scientific study group", but that doesn't make it one.
Click to expand...

What ... the Popular mechanics journalist ? Part of this conspiracy probably yer?
 
PippinTook said:
"The reaction is explained in terms of electrostatics and the rods aligning themselves with the various electrostatic fields present around the underground features.
Click to expand...
Not according to the video you just posted. He said when he can decide what he wants it to detect and what he wants it to ignore at will.
 
Ralph Llama said:
What ... the Popular mechanics journalist ? Part of this conspiracy probably yer?
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The journalist may well have been taken in by what he thought was a proper paper published by someone who really does have credentials in a scientific field.
 
Signal 11 said:
Not according to the video you just posted. He said when he can decide what he wants it to detect and what he wants it to ignore at will.
Click to expand...
did you neglect to read the article... oh..of course you did cos you just think it's all woo woo and you're blinkered.

Here you go.again...It's from
The New Civil Engineer. MAGAZINE online version. A mag with quite a long and well respected history too.


PippinTook said:
Oh...and for those who don't want to click on the link..
It's from The New Civil Engineer. MAGAZINE online version. A mag with quite a long and well respected history too.

Here is an excerpt.

"The electrostatic explanation ties in with the likely presence of varying electrostatic fields around pipes, cables, voids and bodies of water. It may be that forward motion will also play a part in the response of the rods to the fields that are present.

"The divining rod is performing a similar function to the gold leaf electroscope used during school physics to demonstrate electrostatic effects. The charges on the rods cause a response in relation to the charges on the object. Like charges repel and opposite charges attract to influence the alignment that the rods are trying to take up. It was noted that if the dowser removed his or her shoes, their sensitivity often increased, indicating the importance of electrical continuity with the ground.

"Some work has been published (www.connect.ab.ca/~tylosky/) supporting the electrostatic explanation and providing a convincing argument as to why one hand (the right) is sometimes more responsive than the other. The existence and detection of electrostatic fields associated with underground features is being researched at Nottingham Trent University with the intention of developing a scientific instrument, operating independently of the human body, to assist the geotechnical engineer in locating underground features.

Conclusions

"Most people, but not all, are able to generate a reaction in divining rods relating to the presence of underground features such as cables, metal and plastic pipes, buried tanks, foundations, trenches, large tree roots, voids/cavities and bodies of water.The control and understanding of the response seems to improve with practice.

"The reaction is explained in terms of electrostatics and the rods aligning themselves with the various electrostatic fields present around the underground features.

"Limitations are its dependence on operator sensitivity and the presence of electrostatic fields to relate the object to the divining rods. It should not be used as a substitute for locating services in consultation with the statutory authorities before any excavation. However it is a very cheap, and often remarkably effective (and entertaining! ) way of making a preliminary 'geophysical' appraisal of a site before more detailed geophysical and intrusive investigation work.

"Acknowledgements

"The enthusiastic participation and support of the delegates on the part-time MSc course in geotechnical engineering design and management at Nottingham Trent University is much appreciated by the authors.

"References

"Grounds AC (1996).Dowsing as a tool for location of underground services.BEng Dissertation, Ref ES/96, Boots Library, Nottingham Trent University.

"Hansen GP (1982).Dowsing - a review of experimental research.J Soc Psychical Research 51 (792) 343- 367.

"Killip I (1984).Detecting geophysical anomalies at construction sites by dowsing.Land and mineral surveying 2 (12),633-644.

"Wilcock J (1994).Royal Forest of Dean caving symposium. www-sop.inria.fr/agos-sophia/sis/dowsing/dowsdean.html



It's not anything to do with woo woo...think gold spectroscopy and static....

Good night everybody....:D

Bzzzzz bzzzzz
Click to expand...
 
Signal 11


You've gone a bit quiet.

Has the static electricity got your tongue then...?? :D

Oh...maybe you're desperately searching for some thing that says engineers aren't science.....lol..lol...
 
Signal 11 said:
The journalist may well have been taken in by what he thought was a proper paper published by someone who really does have credentials in a scientific field.
Click to expand...

Yes.... this conspiracy theory is getting more elaborate. You would think they would have removed it by now.

credentials in a scientific field?
Hans-Dieter Betz - Wikipedia
Beside atomic physics Betz searched on Sferics, where he leads a science-group on the Munich Ludwig-Maximilians-University.[1]

Betz also investigates Radiesthesia and Dowsing, ten years in Order by the German Government.[2] for example the extensive Munich Scheunenexperimenten.
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What are you on about?
 
Twat. That was taken completely out of context... I was making a point which involved quoting somebody saying that.
 
keybored said:
I'm gonna take that other poster's advice on board and keep an open mind.

Either one of you could be dumbasses, or both.
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And all the civil engineers too ?


PippinTook said:
Oh...and for those who don't want to click on the link..
It's from The New Civil Engineer. MAGAZINE online version. A mag with quite a long and well respected history too.

Here is an excerpt.

"The electrostatic explanation ties in with the likely presence of varying electrostatic fields around pipes, cables, voids and bodies of water. It may be that forward motion will also play a part in the response of the rods to the fields that are present.

"The divining rod is performing a similar function to the gold leaf electroscope used during school physics to demonstrate electrostatic effects. The charges on the rods cause a response in relation to the charges on the object. Like charges repel and opposite charges attract to influence the alignment that the rods are trying to take up. It was noted that if the dowser removed his or her shoes, their sensitivity often increased, indicating the importance of electrical continuity with the ground.

"Some work has been published (www.connect.ab.ca/~tylosky/) supporting the electrostatic explanation and providing a convincing argument as to why one hand (the right) is sometimes more responsive than the other. The existence and detection of electrostatic fields associated with underground features is being researched at Nottingham Trent University with the intention of developing a scientific instrument, operating independently of the human body, to assist the geotechnical engineer in locating underground features.

Conclusions

"Most people, but not all, are able to generate a reaction in divining rods relating to the presence of underground features such as cables, metal and plastic pipes, buried tanks, foundations, trenches, large tree roots, voids/cavities and bodies of water.The control and understanding of the response seems to improve with practice.

"The reaction is explained in terms of electrostatics and the rods aligning themselves with the various electrostatic fields present around the underground features.

"Limitations are its dependence on operator sensitivity and the presence of electrostatic fields to relate the object to the divining rods. It should not be used as a substitute for locating services in consultation with the statutory authorities before any excavation. However it is a very cheap, and often remarkably effective (and entertaining! ) way of making a preliminary 'geophysical' appraisal of a site before more detailed geophysical and intrusive investigation work.

"Acknowledgements

"The enthusiastic participation and support of the delegates on the part-time MSc course in geotechnical engineering design and management at Nottingham Trent University is much appreciated by the authors.

"References

"Grounds AC (1996).Dowsing as a tool for location of underground services.BEng Dissertation, Ref ES/96, Boots Library, Nottingham Trent University.

"Hansen GP (1982).Dowsing - a review of experimental research.J Soc Psychical Research 51 (792) 343- 367.

"Killip I (1984).Detecting geophysical anomalies at construction sites by dowsing.Land and mineral surveying 2 (12),633-644.

"Wilcock J (1994).Royal Forest of Dean caving symposium. www-sop.inria.fr/agos-sophia/sis/dowsing/dowsdean.html



It's not anything to do with woo woo...think gold spectroscopy and static....

Good night everybody....:D

Bzzzzz bzzzzz
Click to expand...
 
Signal 11 said:
The journalist may well have been taken in by what he thought was a proper paper published by someone who really does have credentials in a scientific field.
Click to expand...
Like how Jonathon Bishop sometimes gets booked by a radio news show because they think he a scientific expert on trolling
 
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