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Dodgy looking Poles marching in London for "Doomed Soldiers Memorial Day"

The last twenty years have seen a considerable amount of soul-searching and policy change concerning collectivized agriculture but nowhere more than in Hungary. 12 They first followed the Soviet "horizontal" pattern and after the 1956 revolution reorganized and tried it out again. What resulted was a decline or stagnation of agriculture and chronic shortages of food supplies (to which, before 1956, harsh repressions meted out to a resentful rural population should be added). Neither mechanization nor the deportation of "Kulaks" and the arrest of the "saboteurs," nor bureaucratic orders and campaigns solved the permanent agricultural crisis. Then the Hungarian leadeKship demonstrated the courage of retreat, made a clean sweep, and began in a totally new manner. Village-scale units were now combined with both multi-village and single family ones. Those deported from their villages were permitted to come back and often to direct cooperative production. External controls declined, compulsory sales were abolished, and "vertical" chains of mutually profitable production arrangements were set up and facilitated (e.g., a small holder buying fodder at a price satisfactory to him from the large-scale collective enterprise of which he is a member, to produce within his family unit meat which is then sold on a "free market" or under a contract). The agricultural results were dramatic, moving the country rapidly to the top of the European league where increase in agricultural production and incomes are concerned, not only resolving the problems of supplies but establishing Hungary as an exporter of food. The case of Hungarian agriculture and many other experiments with Collectivization, positive and negative, in Europe as well as in Asia, Africa, and Latin America, acted as an important validation of Chayanov's suggestions for agricultural transformation, of his prognostication, and, up to a point, of his more general theoretical constructs and approaches. It was clearly not the issue of size or of collectivism or even of Collectivization per se but of the actual form of rural transformation and new organization of production as well as the way it combines with peasants-versus-bureaucrats relations, How of resources, and the substantive issues of farming (and its peculiarities as a branch of production). In the face of all these issues, Chayanov's and his friends' superb understanding of agriculture, combined with that of rural society, made them unique. This makes his major project—what he called Social Agronomy—pertinent still. It is not that, on the whole, those who succeeded or failed have studied him directly in Hungary or elsewhere. 13 Such lines are seldom clear. But they would (or will) benefit and could lessen some pains if they would (or will) do so. The fact that this part of Chayanov's intellectual heritage is seldom considered or admitted has to do not with its content but with the nature of current ideological constraints to which we shall return.

http://www.eng.yabloko.ru/Books/Shanin/chayanov.html

"Those deported from their villages were permitted to come back and often to direct cooperative production."

The quote is from top peasant studies man Teodor Shanin. Can we imagine anyone coming back from Auschwitz and being detailed to "direct cooperative production"?

It is to laugh.
 
Eastern europe had a long history of jew hatred before adolf was born my great grandmother and parents fled russia before ww1 they ended up in glasgow where they all died apart from great grandmother who was raised a catholic.
Add the nazis followed by soviet tyranny and all sorts of nasty stuff is going to ferment under the surface :(
 
Yes, you can tell by the bits where he basically says "I am talking about the post-56 era".

It doesnt actually say that in what you've quoted....
The last twenty years have seen a considerable amount of soul-searching and policy change concerning collectivized agriculture but nowhere more than in Hungary. 12 They first followed the Soviet "horizontal" pattern and after the 1956 revolution reorganized and tried it out again.

Notice the full stop after the word "hungary". The second sentence then goes on to talk about the soviet pattern and then "after the 1956 revolution", suggesting that the 20 year period he talks about in the first sentence spans the pre and post revolution period.

[/Grammar Pendant]
 
It doesnt actually say that in what you've quoted....


Notice the full stop after the word "hungary". The second sentence then goes on to talk about the soviet pattern and then "after the 1956 revolution", suggesting that the 20 year period he talks about in the first sentence spans the pre and post revolution period.

[/Grammar Pendant]

He's writing in the mid-80s. So his twenty year period only goes back to the mid-60s, well after the revolution.
 
been told there was a rash of polish fash stickers that appeared in an area of Cardiff
they have been covered afaik and people are keeping eyes out
 
These bunch of dodgy fuckers aside I think you have to appreciate the deep level of anti-communist feeling amongst many people in Poland and other eastern European countries.

my experiences of PLN back this up. Russians are not liked. Poland also is not exactly what you could call a multicultural society either and Poles* has a fairly black &white (sorry) view on a lot of topics.

*as sweeping generalisation I know but ime people tend to be fairly strong in their beliefs one way or the other and there is little in the way of grey areas.
 
ok, you must have missed the soviet invasion of the eastern half of poland as per 1939 borders - and of course this country had guaranteed poland's territorial integrity, it's what we went to war over.

Did you bother read the post you're responding to? I agreed it was an invasion, just that calling it "eastern Poland" is daft; it was Poland's eastern lebesraum, taken by force just 20 years earlier.

The USSR was prepared to guarantee Poland's borders as part of continued attempts by the USSR to form an alliance against Hitler, an alliance which the western powers continually rebuffed and prevaricated about - by 1939 they were acting unilaterally.

if you're going to talk about legal and illegal invasions we'll never hear the fucking end of it, but i suggest you have a glance at adam zamoyski's 'warsaw 1920'. i'm sure the denizens of the eastern half of poland - the byelorussians, ukrainians and lithuanians, not to mention the poles - were ecstatick to be welcomed into the workers' paradise that was the union of soviet socialist republicks under joseph stalin. as for influences on german policy in the east, i suspect the experience of the german freikorps in the east after the first world war, not to mention the german colonial experience in africa, were a mite stronger than what the poles got up to in the 20s. i think you're also on thin ice with your claim that only the germans were really bothered about topping the jews.

If you're just going to grind some olde anarchist beef about the USSR you're never really going to be able to get a handle on anything to do with its history. Perhaps you want to read up on the Polish-Ukraine war of the 40s or check out photos of Polish officers cleansing villages in the east while wearing deaths head insignia round their necks that - to my eye - are pretty much indistinguishable from SS regalia.
 
Did you bother read the post you're responding to? I agreed it was an invasion, just that calling it "eastern Poland" is daft; it was Poland's eastern lebesraum, taken by force just 20 years earlier.

The USSR was prepared to guarantee Poland's borders as part of continued attempts by the USSR to form an alliance against Hitler, an alliance which the western powers continually rebuffed and prevaricated about - by 1939 they were acting unilaterally.



If you're just going to grind some olde anarchist beef about the USSR you're never really going to be able to get a handle on anything to do with its history. Perhaps you want to read up on the Polish-Ukraine war of the 40s or check out photos of Polish officers cleansing villages in the east while wearing deaths head insignia round their necks that - to my eye - are pretty much indistinguishable from SS regalia.

Link me, baby.

I'll note that I can well remember listening to Radio Moscow on the night of the M/R pact's 50th anniversary. The announcer was obviously extremely embarassed about it, and tried to justify it on purely pragmatic grounds as a defensive measure to buy time.
 
Death head insignia were very popular with lots of military units are own 19/21st hussars had them as well as
Loads of others before the nazis.
 
Did you bother read the post you're responding to? I agreed it was an invasion, just that calling it "eastern Poland" is daft; it was Poland's eastern lebesraum, taken by force just 20 years earlier.
i did read your post and i thought that you would do me the courtesy of reading mine where i thought that you would have been pleased i had taken into a/c the objections you made to my earlier contribution: hence my inclusion of 1939 polish borders, recognising the artificiality of the frontier.

but no, you didn't because you wanted to crash right on without engaging brain.

next.
 
Link me, baby.
Odznaka_Dywizjonu_Huzar%C3%B3w_%C5%9Amierci_wz._1920_-_replika.jpg


This is "the "death's head"...the sign of Polish Death Hussar Divisions from 1920 (Polish–Soviet War)"

I can't read what this one says but it's Polish apparently. It's very, very close to the Nazi/German nationalist version.

I'll note that I can well remember listening to Radio Moscow on the night of the M/R pact's 50th anniversary. The announcer was obviously extremely embarassed about it, and tried to justify it on purely pragmatic grounds as a defensive measure to buy time.

And there's a fair case to say that it was, surely?
 
Death head insignia were very popular with lots of military units are own 19/21st hussars had them as well as
Loads of others before the nazis.

Maybe it was a normal thing, but if I saw a bunch of lads mit der Totenkopf coming down my street, well . . .
 
If you're just going to grind some olde anarchist beef about the USSR you're never really going to be able to get a handle on anything to do with its history. Perhaps you want to read up on the Polish-Ukraine war of the 40s or check out photos of Polish officers cleansing villages in the east while wearing deaths head insignia round their necks that - to my eye - are pretty much indistinguishable from SS regalia.
pls point to where i was grinding any auld anarchist beef in my post. i sort of took it for granted that everyone accepted stalin wasn't all that kind to the inhabitants of poland (within the borders of 1939). perhaps you want to read up on the soviet union and poland (within the borders of 1939), what happened there between sept. 1939 and june 1941: and of course when the red army had the germans on the run.
 
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