Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
i have to agree, there's little difference between them if you want a whose worst question
Dodgy looking Poles marching in London for "Doomed Soldiers Memorial Day"
- Thread starter Divisive Cotton
- Start date
i have to agree, there's little difference between them if you want a whose worst question
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
a prickipality?
not completely full of polish history thought it was a papal appointed kindgom around 990ad.. cannie remember what the rows was about just some polish guy screaming in my face "My Country older than yours"
*shrugs*
sunny jim
A pikey fluffy type
No I can totally see why the Poles hate the Russians and vice versa for centuries and Stalin and Hitler's agreement of the carve up of Poland, but you would have thought Nazis wouldnt be so popular seeing as they referred to as the Polish people as 'sub human'.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there's nowt so queer as folk, sj.
ska invita
back on the other side
just to make the point: not all polish anti-communists are fascist though, not by a long stretch. The Law and Order party or whatever they were called got in on a ticket of rooting out the old communist bureaucrats - this had broad popular support - enough to win an election.
seventh bullet
sovietwave
Not all Polish communists are Stalinists, either.
ska invita
back on the other side
theyre not really though are they. yes there is a far right in Poland and was throughout the communist era, but its a tiny minority, maybe equal to the far right in the UK in the 70s
sunny jim
A pikey fluffy type
20,000 on the fash demo recently in Poland - no where near what the fash got in the UK in the 70's. Not even sure Mosely's fascists managed to get that many in the 1930's. Could be wrong about the latter though.
ska invita
back on the other side
Thats good to know, thanks.
yeah it's pretty bad over there at the moment saw this http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/polish-far-right-flash-mobs-scare-liberal-thinkers-5423544 polish far-right flash mobs attacking left-wingers.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
well the doomed soldiers were Polish resistance fighters who were killed by the red army the susppoused liberators of poland
the same murderous tryants who were responsible for kaytn and only fucked off in 1993 they werent missed
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-19/news/mn-36939_1_red-army
its immaterial as to whether or not those honouring them are fascists . The BNP and NF regularly paraded to the London Cenotaph
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Who says they were resistance fighters?well the doomed soldiers were Polish resistance fighters who were killed by the red army the susppoused liberators of poland
the same murderous tryants who were responsible for kaytn and only fucked off in 1993 they werent missed
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-19/news/mn-36939_1_red-army
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Most of the Polish people I know struggle with Polish history tbh. A mate of mine told me that at school his history lessons mostly consisted of memorising all the different times the borders of Poland moved around and the various nefarious forces responsible for all the annexations, partitions and invasions
likesfish
You can't park here sir
The poles do
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Where?
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
The russians had forced labour camps (which were essentially death camps) in hungary, did they not have the same in poland?
I know the principle is different between the nazi and russian ones, but a lot of people died in the labour camps in hungary under russian rule.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
ive a polish mate whos ex fash
next time were out for a pint ill ask him about this outfits boggle and report back to the politburo
next time were out for a pint ill ask him about this outfits boggle and report back to the politburo
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Essentially death camps? I dunno, my Hungarian colleague (who was in the last cohort of people trained to be central planners, and became a born-again neo-liberal) says that they were bad, but not like what you had in Siberia.
A few years back I worked with a Polish lad, he came over as a lovely polite fella. He speaks perfect English as a result of his parents desire that should he get the chance he should leave Poland for Britain or the States.
Talking to him one day about his home and history he told me his mother was born in a labour camp in the Soviet Union as his Grandfather was a prisoner due to owning his own business when the Russians arrived. He served twenty years and was re-educated.
This lad was vehemently anti Russian and anti Communist as a result of his families past and his upbringing. I said rather pointedly that I thought the Nazi's would have been hated far more.
Apparently not, he said that the Germans, bad as they were only picked on the Jews really and they (the Jews) had brought it in themselves! I was shocked and then he said, '' That is the best thing about Poland, no Jews''!
He then proceeded to show me pictures of the 'crew' he ran around with in Gdansk. All of them stood behind a banner with a huge swastika on and about sixty shaved nutters all doing the right arm salute.
It totally changed my opinion and view towards some of the Poles working at the place and no amount of talking or discussion could change their stand point.
It worries me greatly that they see Poland as the last bastion of 'white rule' and they truly believe that there will be a mass exodus of white Christians to Poland when ''the Muslims have taken over Western Europe''
Talking to him one day about his home and history he told me his mother was born in a labour camp in the Soviet Union as his Grandfather was a prisoner due to owning his own business when the Russians arrived. He served twenty years and was re-educated.
This lad was vehemently anti Russian and anti Communist as a result of his families past and his upbringing. I said rather pointedly that I thought the Nazi's would have been hated far more.
Apparently not, he said that the Germans, bad as they were only picked on the Jews really and they (the Jews) had brought it in themselves! I was shocked and then he said, '' That is the best thing about Poland, no Jews''!
He then proceeded to show me pictures of the 'crew' he ran around with in Gdansk. All of them stood behind a banner with a huge swastika on and about sixty shaved nutters all doing the right arm salute.
It totally changed my opinion and view towards some of the Poles working at the place and no amount of talking or discussion could change their stand point.
It worries me greatly that they see Poland as the last bastion of 'white rule' and they truly believe that there will be a mass exodus of white Christians to Poland when ''the Muslims have taken over Western Europe''
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The pro-nazi Hungarian state certainly forced jews to work in their camps whilst they fought for the Nazis. Are you referring to camps after the war, the short-lived ones in the early 50s?
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
Yeah those are the ones I mean. Mostly ran from the end of WW2 to 1958-ish didnt they?
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
Was he in one?
In budapest a lot of the stuff I saw about them said they were basically death camps, if you went, likelihood was you weren't coming back
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
The Soviet "invasion of the eastern half of Poland" was nothing of the sort; not because they didn't invade but because to call the territory invaded "the eastern half of Poland" is just plain wrong. It was - at best - part Polish ethnically, much of it was 'really' Ukraine, Belarus, even parts of Lithuania. Most of it had been seized at gunpoint by the Polish military govt of the 1920s during illegal invasions carried out under the general heading of joining in the general western attempts to throttle the USSR at birth, but really a land-grab. The resulting territory usually ended up as great estates owned by Polish nobility with the locals reduced to an ethnically-based serfdom. Something of a model for the Nazi policy in the east a few years later in fact.
This explains the murderous Ukraine-Polish war that took place under Nazi occupation as Ukrainian nationalists resistance sought to ethnically cleanse Poles from the east and Polish resistance merrily reciprocated, for the most part leaving the Germans to get on with jew-slaughtering (which neither group seemed to greatly care about).
The current eastern borders of Poland basically mirror the Molotov-Ribbentrop line and no one apart from the lunatic fringes of the Polish far right seriously questions that they are about right in terms of where Poland 'really' is.
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
she's a fascist for sure. Her t-shirt is in Spanish and says "han pasado", which means they've passed, which is a fascist retort to "no pasaran" (and below it says "For God and the fatherland")
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
He was a bit too young for that. And from what he said, quite a few people did come back. Though mind you, some people made it back from Siberia (like General Jaruzelski).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They only appear to have existed 1950-53 as part of Rakosi's plan to weed out opposition and impose rapid industrialisation. Hard to get reliable info, and cannot find any at all of deaths, which is why i'm sceptical of the claim that they were effectively death-camps. Labour camps of a different kind, of the type they re-introduced a few years back (really) continued for some time after that though. 600 000 hungarians were taken out of Hungary and sent to the soviet union and 1/3 of them died. Maybe you're linking the two?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
ok, you must have missed the soviet invasion of the eastern half of poland as per 1939 borders - and of course this country had guaranteed poland's territorial integrity, it's what we went to war over. if you're going to talk about legal and illegal invasions we'll never hear the fucking end of it, but i suggest you have a glance at adam zamoyski's 'warsaw 1920'. i'm sure the denizens of the eastern half of poland - the byelorussians, ukrainians and lithuanians, not to mention the poles - were ecstatick to be welcomed into the workers' paradise that was the union of soviet socialist republicks under joseph stalin. as for influences on german policy in the east, i suspect the experience of the german freikorps in the east after the first world war, not to mention the german colonial experience in africa, were a mite stronger than what the poles got up to in the 20s. i think you're also on thin ice with your claim that only the germans were really bothered about topping the jews.
sim667
All aboard the 303 bus.
Yes I think I am. When I was at the terror house I think I just assumed they were in hungary when reading about them.
Around numbers from wikipedia suggest about 200,000 hungarians died in them, it would be interesting to know the total number from all the areas where people were taken
e2a: Ive got all of the literature that you pick up as you walk round the terror house in budapest if anyone wants copies, there's a lot and its very detailed for museum literature.
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