Digital Demand Responsive Transport (DDRT) schemes

[Indeliblelink]

They are proposing bringing in a "Digital Demand Responsive Transport (DDRT)" scheme for our county bus routes. [Also known as Dynamic Demand Responsive Transport.]

"In simple terms, these DDRT schemes would see fixed bus routes replaced with routes which change day-to-day based on passengers booking pick ups and drop offs."

Huh?, So turn the buses into big taxis and if you live near a remote stop the bus might not bother going that route on that day if not enough people in that area have booked at that time?
If you use a popular stop then having to pre-book instead of being able to just jump on the first bus that arrives?
Anyone got any experience of these in action?

Plans for buses to turn up when 'booked' and 11 new transport hubs could be created

‘AMBITIOUS’ plans to improve bus services around East Sussex have been endorsed by a senior county councillor.

www.theargus.co.uk

Searching Google it seems a few areas are toying with the idea

https://www.torbay.gov.uk/media/16255/torbay-drt-feasibility-study-may21.pdf

https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/WECA-FMZ-Bid-Submission-website-version.pdf

Demand-responsive transport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Pickman's model]

think i had to book the other year when i went to bradwell

 

[two sheds]

that's great for places like mine where there's no mobile reception at house or bus stop.

 

[existentialist]

They are proposing bringing in a "Digital Demand Responsive Transport (DDRT)" scheme for our county bus routes. [Also known as Dynamic Demand Responsive Transport.]

"In simple terms, these DDRT schemes would see fixed bus routes replaced with routes which change day-to-day based on passengers booking pick ups and drop offs."

Huh?, So turn the buses into big taxis and if you live near a remote stop the bus might not bother going that route on that day if not enough people in that area have booked at that time?
If you use a popular stop then having to pre-book instead of being able to just jump on the first bus that arrives?
Anyone got any experience of these in action?

Plans for buses to turn up when 'booked' and 11 new transport hubs could be created

‘AMBITIOUS’ plans to improve bus services around East Sussex have been endorsed by a senior county councillor.

www.theargus.co.uk

Searching Google it seems a few areas are toying with the idea

https://www.torbay.gov.uk/media/16255/torbay-drt-feasibility-study-may21.pdf

https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/WECA-FMZ-Bid-Submission-website-version.pdf

Demand-responsive transport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think it's a fabulous idea, and there is a Geoff Marshall video of a bus route-based version of this, which seemed to work quite well.



I do wonder whether it works better in more built-up areas...

 

[Teaboy]

I think it is an idea that has potential, its certainly worth a few trial schemes. Of course public transport does not lend itself it a one size fits all solution so there will be many scenarios where it doesn't work or there are better options.

 

[existentialist]

I think it is an idea that has potential, its certainly worth a few trial schemes. Of course public transport does not lend itself it a one size fits all solution so there will be many scenarios where it doesn't work or there are better options.

On the Geoff Marshall video, one of the bus people was saying that there will never be a need to get rid of fixed routes altogether, but this provides a better access for less well-served areas. And it did seem to include a fair sized rural element.

 

[platinumsage]

I think it's a fabulous idea, and there is a Geoff Marshall video of a bus route-based version of this, which seemed to work quite well.



I do wonder whether it works better in more built-up areas...

Seems like a bad idea if it leads to so many buses parking on pavements.

 

[8ball]

I haven't looked at the algorithms involved, but my first instinct is to have some suspicion of the usefulness of the idea of 0.04 buses turning up in response to my request.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I'm ambivalent about it.

Demand Responsive Transport is not new - there have been schemes since the mid 70s at least, and I had a modest involvement in setting some up in the late 90s / early 00s (when the blair government was putting revenue funding in to bus services) with some DRT schemes replacing very infrequent bus services in deep rural areas (i'm talking about the kind of village who previously had a school bus morning and afternoon in school term and one 'market day' bus a week) offering links to the nearest town (and designed to connect to and from the 'main road' bus services.)

By their nature, they are only going to be needed in areas that can't sustain a reasonable regular bus service (they can work in remote estates in urban areas as well as rural areas) so ongoing revenue funding is inevitably going to be required. The way public finances work, ongoing revenue funding is hard to secure, one off 'capital' spending on infrastructure (like fancy new bus shelters) is easier to finance.

Politicians think DRT is great, especially if they think it's like a taxi and you (as in the council) will only pay for it when the wheels are turning. In reality it's not like that, as you need to finance the vehicles and pay the drivers a day's pay even for being on call (a taxi may sit on the cab rank but if someone rings up wanting an airport run, then off they go, or if it's a really quiet day they will give up and go home.)

Big downside with DRT is the need to pre-book. It's inevitable on the journey from remote area, but you can't (under current laws about running bus services in England) legally have the homeward journey work on the basis of 'bus will leave Walmington Pier every hour on the hour and go anywhere within the blob shown on this map' - which means it's hard to plan / book a return journey if you're going to something like a hospital appointment that might last 10 minutes or might last 2 hours, or are making a connection from a 'main road' bus or a train.

The schemes in the 1990s were based on phoning up by lunch time one day, someone in the office would then plan the next day's journeys and ring people back in the afternoon and confirm tomorrow's pick up times.

The tech available to do all that now is great in theory, but there's the practical issue that a lot of the people who need this sort of thing most are going to be older people who are (on average) less likely to have / use a smart phone, and that's before you get on to the lack of mobile signal in some rural areas.

The blog 'bus and train user' has some user experiences of DRT buses, like this one (the bloke that does that was managing director of a fairly big bus operation until he retired a few years back)

 

[teuchter]

Always feels to me like you'd be better really concentrating on getting a good frequency on core rural bus routes which stop at multiple hubs where connecting taxis do the final 5-15 mins of the journey. Use existing taxi services (so you are not paying for all of that downtime) and have them shared by several passengers where that works. Taxi fares effectively subsidised - as long as the core part of your journey is by bus/train. The sort of system you can gradually grow if it becomes more popular - extend the core bus routes or make them more frequent - and watching where the taxis are most often going to see if some of them could be replaced by timetabled services.

 

[StoneRoad]

Can't see how that would work in rural areas.

Almost naff all mobile signal in some places around here. And what about the Twerliies (Too Early for their passes) that probably don't have a smart phone ?

Around here there was an access bus that could be booked [Adapt ?] but it cost far more to organise / run and there were problems getting drivers. The scheme went pear-shaped several years ago.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Utterly useless for anyone who has a job to get to.

 

[Dogsauce]

I think this sort of thing could work in conjunction with electric scooters, have them docked in a boot area of the bus, drop people off at a hub in rural areas and they do the last mile by scooter (over grotty, bumpy roads…)