Dialectical Materialism

[Captain Hurrah]

Anarchism began to bear fruit with the Makhnovischina in Ukraine, and in Spain in the '30s. Sadly, on both occasions, betrayals by so-called Marxists lead to the defeat of the anarchists, and, ultimately to the imposition of brutally repressive regimes.

Can you point me in the direction of Marxism's marvelous victories from the last 100 years?

An ever-fluctuating sliver of territory in wartime Ukraine doesn't really constitute bearing fruit. How long was anarchism's time in the Spanish sun?

 

[Athos]

An ever-fluctuating sliver of territory in wartime Ukraine doesn't really constitute bearing fruit. How long was anarchism's time in the Spanish sun?

Both those examples covered large areas, for some years. Both were destroyed by self-described Marxists. Other than betraying genuinely left wing movements, and paving the way for viscous despots, what have Marxists acheived recently?

 

[Captain Hurrah]

You're 14 years of age, right?

 

[Athos]

You're 14 years of age, right?

Good answer.

 

[kyser_soze]

Dialectical materialism - alpha-male fighting technique for bookish & intellectual types.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Anarchism began to bear fruit with the Makhnovischina in Ukraine, and in Spain in the '30s. Sadly, on both occasions, betrayals by so-called Marxists lead to the defeat of the anarchists, and, ultimately to the imposition of brutally repressive regimes.

Can you point me in the direction of Marxism's marvelous victories from the last 100 years?

lol. The usual whining.
If you methodology is too ineffectual and to incompetent to overcome the Marxists, how can you possibly hope to overcome the capitalists.

 

[Athos]

lol. The usual whining.
If you methodology is too ineffectual and to incompetent to overcome the Marxists, how can you possibly hope to overcome the capitalists.

Tell you what, I'll deal with this point when you address the question I've posed a few times now: what are the concrete achievements of Marxism, from the last hundred years?

ETA: Actually, don't bother: I find this sort of sectarian bickering deeply depressing. Just as different groups on the left are coming together to actually do something in London, it would be a bit unseemly for is to waste time and energy on an internet spat. I'm happy to agree to disagree on the detail, and recognise that, as part of the broad left, there is more that we agree on than there is about which we are at odds.

 

[TremulousTetra]

ETA: Actually, don't bother: I find this sort of sectarian bickering deeply depressing. Just as different groups on the left are coming together to actually do something in London, it would be a bit unseemly for is to waste time and energy on an internet spat. I'm happy to agree to disagree on the detail, and recognise that, as part of the broad left, there is more that we agree on than there is about which we are at odds.

fucking hell, I never thought I'd come across a sensible anarchist,,,,,,,,,,,,, on U75. Kudos and respect to you comrade.

 

[TremulousTetra]

btw, just open a littl your political horizons Athos, the 'Marxists' that did indeed kill the Spanish @ism in the civil war etc, also killed the Trotskyites in their revolution.

 

[Athos]

btw, just open a littl your political horizons Athos, the 'Marxists' that did indeed kill the Spanish @ism in the civil war etc, also killed the Trotskyites in their revolution.

I accept that.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I accept that.

Excellent! So just to acknowledge where you were right.

You are absolutely right, about some Marxists preferring the theoretical to the day-to-day activity. About them becoming so besotted with dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the theory, it becomes a barrier to activity.

BUT having said that, would you not acknowledge it is always good practice to start with the end in mind? To have some idea of what your objective is, and how you get there?

ETA. In fact you have already illustrated in this thread you have such aims and do have a plan how to achieve them.

 

[likesfish]

er marxism is a dead duck in the UK the idea anybody gives a shit what you think is laughable

 

[Proper Tidy]

er marxism is a dead duck in the UK the idea anybody gives a shit what you think is laughable

Get with the times old man. Socialism is the future.

 

[TremulousTetra]

DELETE

 

[TremulousTetra]

er marxism is a dead duck in the UK the idea anybody gives a shit what you think is laughable

is it any more laughable, than people bending over and taking it up the ass from 'the man', whilst being stupid enough to remain feeling smug?

BTW. I am under no illusions that anybody is interested in a single word I have to say. In fact if you actually bothered to read the thread, you would see the opposite is true.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Get with the times old man. Socialism is the future.

LOL, the whole point of the thread is that the future CHOICE is dialectical, a classless society or barbarism.

 

[butchersapron]

LOL, the whole point of the thread is that the future CHOICE is dialectical, a classless society of barbarism.

Sounds great. Have you a newsletter i can subscribe to?

 

[Proper Tidy]

LOL, the whole point of the thread is that the future CHOICE is dialectical, a classless society of barbarism.

Mazin

 

[TremulousTetra]

Sounds great. Have you a newsletter i can subscribe to?

just for you, the pink nazi www.ResistanceMP3.org.uk

 

[butchersapron]

What does pink nazi mean?

 

[belboid]

I think he's calling you a poof

 

[butchersapron]

If he loves barbaria so much why doesn't he move there?

 

[TremulousTetra]

What does pink nazi mean?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Alcohol-and-Memory-Loss&id=1711939

 

[butchersapron]

That's no excuse rmp3. Have another go.

 

[TremulousTetra]

That's no excuse rmp3. Pave another go.

I know your brain is pickled, but how many times have I compared you to

 

[butchersapron]

What a well known thing

 

[PeterTCA]

To paraphrase the late Raymond Williams: Concepts like "Dialectical Materialism" and "Superstructure" are fine abstracts for intellectual debate but once you applied them in practice they just didn't hold up. Where Marxism was used to run countries the regimes only lasted so long because they needed massively expanding departments of secret police. They all ended up as one man shows, corrupt, tyrannical and utterly under-humoured.

 

[kyser_soze]

Hmm. Calls you a pink nazi, then links to a Yootoob of Jon Barrowman, thesp and well known heemsex.

Is there a dialectical subtext I'm missing?

 

[likesfish]

exactly bit like arguing about angels and pinheads meaningless.
No country that claimed to be marxist was a pleasant place to live.
The basic idea might have merit but details fucked it up.
capitalism maybe a shit idea but seems in practice to be a little more effective.

 

[Proper Tidy]

To paraphrase the late Raymond Williams: Concepts like "Dialectical Materialism" and "Superstructure" are fine abstracts for intellectual debate but once you applied them in practice they just didn't hold up. Where Marxism was used to run countries the regimes only lasted so long because they needed massively expanding departments of secret police. They all ended up as one man shows, corrupt, tyrannical and utterly under-humoured.

Wasn't that because they had an unaccountable bureaucracy in control rather than the working class? It's got nothing to do with dialectical materialism you ahistorical gibbon.