David Icke lecture @ Wembley Arena, October 2012

[faux pas]

You just did didn't you? See what happens when we work together.

All the other stuff he said before that he now rejects and thinks was wrong was part of his...' madness, lunacy'. So, there's a whole from the horses mouth set of contradictions there faux pas isn't there?

Talking of fallacies, how would you describe a situation where someone got something massively repeatedly and public wrong and then tried to justify it on the basis that he was right to be wrong? The Blair syndrome?

Any news on what you found interesting about the latest of Ickes that you've read given that we're being all courteous an all?

I never claimed Icke referred to his 'experience' as madness, only that I assume you probably would.

Okay, I give up on getting any examples of contradictions in his recent work. How absurd when you seem to be so vehement and ready to defend it.

 

[butchersapron]

You won't talk about his recent work - i've tried what, 5 or 6 times to coax you into daring to talk about it - you point blank refuse. I wonder why. As far as this goes, at what point do you think his sane period began if we're to write off his earlier stuff in our catalouge of contradictions.

 

[London_Calling]

Ahhh, butchers has found a new playmate.

 

[Blagsta]

Still no answer, then.

What about the Jews eh? Eh?

 

[Jack Black]

I find it fascinating that there is a seemingly significant audience for him in British society.

What is it he gives these people...

I think it's like a substitute for religion, people want to simplify complex issues, or believe there is a degree of magic and/or supernatural forces at play in the world.

 

[London_Calling]

^ Perhaps that, in turn, might explain their own under-achievment in life, or even their perceived 'oddness' - it's not their fault, there are unknown forces at work.

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't think it's that simple. David Icke fans aren't necessarily under-achievers

 

[goldenecitrone]

I don't think it's that simple. David Icke fans aren't necessarily under-achievers

Or psychiatric patients.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't think it's that simple. David Icke fans aren't necessarily under-achievers

Indeed. Its also possible that Ickes fans base their beliefs on the residue of religious ways of thinking, but it doesn't mean that their views are religious as such. Or, more importantly serve the same functions as religions did historically.

 

[TruXta]

I certainly think their views can be classified alongside ordinarily religious ones, but it's not institutionalised like religions are, there are no rites, holy places, or holy people, no worship and no liturgy. It's spiritual entertainment, and as such it belongs more with activities such as going to the movies or a gig.

 

[butchersapron]

It's entertainment for sure - not at all convinced it's spiritual. More like panto. Which makes it knowing falseness, it's deliberate magpie fakeness sort of anti-spirtual if anything.

 

[elbows]

Magical thinkings appeal to some minds did not diminish with the arrival of science.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

He might go for 'every conspiracy theory going', but I'm not sure he does actually contradict himself. I'd be surprised if you could point out exactly where he does. He believes that it's all played out on many levels.

I'm just going for a poo so I will take my Icke book with me to refresh my memory and get back to you.
It's a crazy rambling mess of a book. I had a phase of being quite keen on reading these sorts of books as a sort of blair witch sci-fi in book form (made up bollocks presented as real) and they are sadly pretty much across the board extremely badly written making for a rather difficult and uninteresting read.

 

[butchersapron]

Magical thinkings appeal to some minds did not diminish with the arrival of science.

Yep, and it's really important not tot try and approach these phenomena as case of getting things 'wrong' (in scientific or logical terms). They're not 'wrong' - they're one of the ways in which reactions to differing social conditions and relations of power manifest themselves. (And there's some right thick fucks who'll buy anything as well)

 

[faux pas]

You won't talk about his recent work - i've tried what, 5 or 6 times to coax you into daring to talk about it - you point blank refuse. I wonder why. As far as this goes, at what point do you think his sane period began if we're to write off his earlier stuff in our catalouge of contradictions.

You're so desperate to ridicule me, that I'll take your bait.

David Icke believes that the moon is hollow (although I'm not sure that is one of his stronger convictions), he also believes in reptilian entities who have hybrids here on earth, he believes in greys and others entities, he believes that certain bloodlines have pervaded throughout time often manifesting themselves as the ruling class, he believes that different sides of conflict in the world are supported and manipulated by the same groups.

The claim was that the theories Icke holds contradict themselves. I find that an interesting remark and asked the poster if he could demonstrate why as I'm not quite sure of the validity of that at all. Then you jump in grabbing the baton, flapping it around yet not seemingly wanting to run with it.

You've hounded me to effectively prove the absence of a claim I never made. Of course, it would be more logical for the claimant to prove his point and show the contradictions, not for the questioner to randomly show a sample of bits of information that apparently don't contradict each other, but as that's the way you want it, I've done so above. So can you now please point out how Icke contradicts himself in his work?

Now remember, this is not a claim about the truth of the information or theories. You can claim his theories mad and totally erroneous and it wouldn't make a difference to the claim that Icke contradicts himself. I'm sure that you're so smart that you won't fail to see that distinction (again).

 

[butchersapron]

But you'd be 'surprised' if any of the above claims (or other as of yet unstated ones) contradict each other? That's what you actually said right? Do you stand by that?

 

[butchersapron]

Let's take the first claim - that the moon is hollow. Previously Icke had claimed not that the moon is hollow but a hologram. That's a contradiction right?

 

[faux pas]

But you'd be 'surprised' if any of the above claims (or other as of yet unstated ones) contradict each other? That's what you actually said right? Do you stand by that?

Yes, I'd be surprised, because, even though it has also appeared to me that way in the past, when thinking about it further, I have failed to see why and, being that someone else claims it to be true, I would be interested to be shown why.

 

[butchersapron]

Well you better get your surprised face ready then.

 

[TruXta]

It's entertainment for sure - not at all convinced it's spiritual. More like panto. Which makes it knowing falseness, it's deliberate magpie fakeness sort of anti-spirtual if anything.

I think it is for some, for a certain value of "spiritual". Kinda hard to quantify of course.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, I'd be surprised, because, even though it has also appeared to me that way in the past, when thinking about it further, I have failed to see why and, being that someone else claims it to be true, I would be interested to be shown why.

Are you actually arguing btw that something can be non-contradictory whilst also being false?

 

[faux pas]

Let's take the first claim - that the moon is hollow. Previously Icke had claimed not that the moon is hollow but a hologram. That's a contradiction right?

No, I'm afraid I don't see why that's a contradiction as, in the five sense reality, many things can be referred to as 'hollow' regardless as to the further theory of a holographic world. The 'hollowness' is the way we experience it, as with everything else played out in the five sense reality.

 

[Orang Utan]

Oh christ

 

[faux pas]

Are you actually arguing btw that something can be non-contradictory whilst also being false?

Of course..

The statement: 'Muhammed Ali is the US president', is a false statement, but only contradictory when combined with such a statement as 'Sean Penn is the the US president'.

 

[goldenecitrone]

No, I'm afraid I don't see why that's a contradiction as, in the five sense reality, many things can be referred to as 'hollow' regardless as to the further theory of a holographic world. The 'hollowness' is the way we experience it, as with everything else played out in the five sense reality.

The five sense reality. As opposed to the sixth sense delusion?

 

[TruXta]

No, I'm afraid I don't see why that's a contradiction as, in the five sense reality, many things can be referred to as 'hollow' regardless as to the further theory of a holographic world. The 'hollowness' is the way we experience it, as with everything else played out in the five sense reality.

In my five sense reality I have a sneaking feeling you believe much of what Icke says.

 

[butchersapron]

No, I'm afraid I don't see why that's a contradiction as, in the five sense reality, many things can be referred to as 'hollow' regardless as to the further theory of a holographic world. The 'hollowness' is the way we experience it, as with everything else played out in the five sense reality.

And finally we weedle it out of you. Odd how this hologram can support real physical moon bases for an alien life form that controls the earth.

 

[TruXta]

Of course..

The statement: 'Muhammed Ali is the US president', is a false statement, but only contradictory when combined with the statement that 'Sean Penn is the the US president'.

I've also got the feeling you don't know what a contradiction entails. Your first statement is in contradiction with the true state of affairs. You do know who the POTUS is dontcha?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's entertainment for sure - not at all convinced it's spiritual. More like panto. Which makes it knowing falseness, it's deliberate magpie fakeness sort of anti-spirtual if anything.

I'd see it as more akin to the state of 'unknowing' knowing of hypnosis, when a person can insist in English that they can't speak English, or they can be made to not see an object in front of them yet still walk around it to avoid kicking it.

It's a similar state to that involved in religious rites such as giving food to the dead then eating it yourself and reporting that the dead were pleased with their meal. It is somewhere between make-believe and belief - it is voluntary wish-fulfillment but not entirely insincere.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course..

The statement: 'Muhammed Ali is the US president', is a false statement, but only contradictory when combined with such a statement as 'Sean Penn is the the US president'.

Not it's not. A truth claim that is untrue contains a fundamental contradiction.

Anyway, job done.