Crown and Anchor pub, Brixton Road, Brixton goes card-only

[Gramsci]

Yes, but unregistered cards that you top up can fulfill this function. Like is possible with Oyster cards. In some cities they have an equivalent to Oyster, that you can use in shops and bars etc. You just get the card from a machine and put some credit on it. In the long term this seems the more likely solution. People exchanging bits of paper and metal will become redundant I reckon.

My Oyster is not registered. I keep it that way for reasons of personal privacy.

A lot of pre paid cards require one to register using for example ID like passport number. So are different to cash.

I remember idea that Oyster could be used to buy small items. Like Octopus. It never happened.

Its more likely , unfortunately, that Oyster could be phased out as contactless card payments are now possible.

I don't feel governments would be keen on people having cards they could load up anonymously for larger amounts that are spent in shops and bars.

Technically its probably possible. Yes it could be alternative.

 

[cuppa tee]

What would happen if we end up with someone like Rees Mogg running the country in a no cash scenario....anyone on benefits who splashed out on a cheeky pint or two could find their money stopped if their spending was open to scrutiny by the PTB

 

[TruXta]

Technically its probably possible. Yes it could be alternative.

Technically it's a trivial problem. Politically it's a no go.

 

[marty21]

Technically it's a trivial problem. Politically it's a no go.

Yep, banks aren't going to want to release that information and politicians won't want to open that can of worms just in case their spending ends up being analysed too.

 

[TruXta]

Yep, banks aren't going to want to release that information and politicians won't want to open that can of worms just in case their spending ends up being analysed too.

I meant anonymous cards. If you're talking about banks releasing account information, well, they already do that if compelled.

 

[TruXta]

Keep up granda.

 

[teuchter]

I meant anonymous cards.

They already exist.

 

[TruXta]

They already exist.

Usable just like any debit card with full anonymity?

 

[teuchter]

Usable just like any debit card with full anonymity?

Don't know. What I know is that there are places in the world where you can buy a card with cash from a machine, load it up and then use it in shops etc. At no point in the process do you hand over any personal details.

 

[alex_]

I don't feel governments would be keen on people having cards they could load up anonymously for larger amounts that are spent in shops and bars.

Technically its probably possible. Yes it could be alternative.

One of the reasons they won’t like them would be money laundering.

Alex

 

[Gramsci]

One of the reasons they won’t like them would be money laundering.

Alex

If the move to cashless society is inevitable does that mean you do not support idea of totally anonymous cards?

 

[alex_]

If the move to cashless society is inevitable does that mean you do not support idea of totally anonymous cards?

I do, but there are also good reasons the government doesn’t.

Other issues - who pays for it and why ?

Alex

 

[Gramsci]

I do, but there are also good reasons the government doesn’t.

Other issues - who pays for it and why ?

Alex

I was replying to the argument put forward that move to cashless society was inevitable. Its technological process that just happened.

 

[TruXta]

I was replying to the argument put forward that move to cashless society was inevitable. Its technological process that just happened.

There's nothing inevitable about it.

 

[teuchter]

Article here about sweden.

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/going-cashless-can-learn-swedens-experience/

 

[alex_]

I was replying to the argument put forward that move to cashless society was inevitable. Its technological process that just happened.

I’m guessing that the government wants to transfer a load of costs to the banks, and the banks want it as it gives them a load of data about their customer and potentially lets the banks monitise that.

Alex

 

[Gramsci]

There's nothing inevitable about it.

I agree.

 

[editor]

There's plenty of serious doubts about Sweden's drive to a cashless society.

"If cash stops working, it would leave all individuals to rely on the private sector alone to get access to money and payment methods"
Why Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

"And the progress toward a cashless society could upend the state’s centuries-old role as sovereign guarantor. If cash disappears, commercial banks would wield greater control."
Sweden’s Push to Get Rid of Cash Has Some Saying, ‘Not So Fast’

"Meanwhile the bank's governor Stefan Ingves has argued that phasing out coins and notes could put the entire country at risk should Sweden encounter a "serious crisis or war"."
Who loses from a cashless society?

 

[snowy_again]

Aside from the sub editors title this article you cited actually suggests that the state creates an e-Krona as a way of not letting private business manage ecommerce and as a replacement to cash.

Why Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

 

[editor]

Aside from the sub editors title this article you cited actually suggests that the state creates an e-Krona as a way of not letting private business manage ecommerce and as a replacement to cash.

Why Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

Yes, it's an interesting piece. I hope you read the other links too. The Crown and Anchor are still wankers for forcing a card only policy on their customers though.

 

[snowy_again]

What do you think of a state backed e-currency replacing all cash which it proposes?

I've also read the earlier BBC article which was a bit disappointing - its based around research from a dubious person who moved from working for a public sector finance regulator to a large private bank - I'm assuming benefiting from all of the pay package that brought, plus the knowledge of where the grey areas in policy gaps are to be exploited.

It's essentially the Link ATM company paying for someone with a name for research - and amounts to a lobbying tool for their private business model. Strange that the bosses are being supported this way.

Aside from that I didn't find the messages that relevant to this discussion as it relates to people with bank accounts using ATMs to withdraw cash - which isn't the topic here is it - we're talking about people with no bank accounts (or POCA accounts which have limited ATM access) not being able to access services at a pub.

 

[editor]

What do you think of a state backed e-currency replacing all cash which it proposes?

I want cash to remain and be accepted everywhere for those who wish to use it. And I don't want trendy pubs disenfranchising their loyal customers and going card-only just to make their already-profitable business a little bit more profitable.

 

[Gramsci]

I’m guessing that the government wants to transfer a load of costs to the banks, and the banks want it as it gives them a load of data about their customer and potentially lets the banks monitise that.

Alex

For me another reason to not support move to cashless society.

 

[8ball]

For me another reason to not support move to cashless society.

The big prize is being able to set negative interest rates.
Your money is their money.

 

[Gramsci]

What do you think of a state backed e-currency replacing all cash which it proposes?

Aside from that I didn't find the messages that relevant to this discussion as it relates to people with bank accounts using ATMs to withdraw cash - which isn't the topic here is it - we're talking about people with no bank accounts (or POCA accounts which have limited ATM access) not being able to access services at a pub.

I have bank account and debit card. I still like using cash.

I dont want all my spending habits recorded.

Government backed E currency would not probably be anonymous like using cash. So no I wouldn't support it.

 

[Nanker Phelge]

we can do away with copper money though....that just makes my trousers fall down....

 

[Gramsci]

we can do away with copper money though....that just makes my trousers fall down....

I miss farthings with that nice Wren on them.

 

[snowy_again]

I want cash to remain and be accepted everywhere for those who wish to use it. And I don't want trendy pubs disenfranchising their loyal customers and going card-only just to make their already-profitable business a little bit more profitable.

So you disagreed with the article?

 

[editor]

So you disagreed with the article?

I'm not really sure how much clearer I can make my statement.

 

[snowy_again]

I'm sorry, but I'm still confused - the article doesn't agree with your view point - it doesn't propose the end of electronic currencies, nor that retailers shouldn't be e-currency only, nor cash being a compulsory method of payment in Sweden - as it points out that retailers aren't obliged to accept cash by law anyway.

Instead, it says that the state bank should deliver an online currency instead of the private banking sector.

Here's the state bank Riksbank policy and research paper summary on implementing a a state run e-krona until the point at which those using cash dwindle:
Next step – a technical solution for the e-krona

And from it's press release in 2016: "The Riksbank will continue issuing banknotes and coins as long as there is demand for them in society. It is our statutory duty and we will of course continue to live up to it"