Crown and Anchor pub, Brixton Road, Brixton goes card-only

[CH1]

I was moved to purchase a pint of Camden Hells lager on my Co-op credit card this evening at the newly refurbished Two Brewers in Clapham High Street.
Not that I normally buy beer on credit - but the £5.75 price tag knocked me back on my heels.

The bar person helpfully commented that I could have Kronenberg or Carling on a "happy hour" tariff, but as a real ale drinker this option was rather repellent.

I should just say I was in the Two Brewers following a group visit to the Oscar Wilde Temple on the opposite side of the road. The Two Brewers and Oscar Wilde kind of seemed a natural fit - until the choice of beers at the bar.

I used to go in the Two Brewers a lot in the 1980s, but the last time I was in there was probably 1997 when I saw the late Regina Fong, who somehow beat me to the Brewers from her appearance at a stage show at the Criterion at Piccadilly Circus immediately before.

I was impressed by the cleanliness of the new upstair gents, which have a nice Victorian fireplace just outside. There's a large mirror above the mantlepiece to help powder one's nose. How come the fireplace is still there, and wasn't sold off to an architectural salvage merchant? The cavernous space lined with aluminium urinal troughs made me wonder why they need enough space for 20 people to pee simultaneously?

The Camden Hells lager was OK by the way.

 

[alex_]

In whose interests are these new technologies for?

So far from this thread its combination of the state and business?

Not consumers?

It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.

Alex

 

[TruXta]

It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.

Alex

Of course he would never consider trousering the difference, no sir!

 

[editor]

It’s very clear that this guy is doing it to reduce costs, so yes - consumers.

Alex

So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself? Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?

 

[CH1]

So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself? Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?

I appreciate this thread is supposed to be about the Crown and Anchor - but as it has now diversified to cover commercial exploitation and dubious business methods I feel moved to offer another comment about the Two Brewers.

Their re-opening after an alleged £250,000 revamp was trailed in the Evening Standard LGBTQ+ bar The Two Brewers is reopening this weekend

What I didn't know - and only became apparent after a bit of deep Googling, is that the Two Brewers is part of the Stonegate Pub Company chain, which also includes Slug and Lettuce and Yates's.

Guess where they are registered : Codan Trust Company (cayman) Limited, PO Box 2681, Cricket Square, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands, KY1 1111
STONEGATE PUB COMPANY LIMITED - Overview (free company information from Companies House)

Things have come a long was since they gave away free roast potatoes on a Sunday lunchtime in the 1980s.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Cash is a pain.

I could take it off your hands for you, if you like.

 

[cuppa tee]

If we found ourselves in the situation where there were very few pubs where you could pay in cash, then it would be a bigger deal. I think that pubs that tend to serve the demographic who want to pay in cash will continue to accept cash for some time.

Considering the dearth of pubs in the area served by the one we are discussing would you be willing to concede that as they operate a virtual monopoly, [unless one wants to trek down to the Oval or up to Brixton,] they should do their best to acomodate all potential customers no matter how eccentric or outmoded their preferences when it comes to payment methods ?

 

[teuchter]

Considering the dearth of pubs in the area served by the one we are discussing would you be willing to concede that as they operate a virtual monopoly, [unless one wants to trek down to the Oval or up to Brixton,] they should do their best to acomodate all potential customers no matter how eccentric or outmoded their preferences when it comes to payment methods ?

I have to confess, I had mixed the Crown and Anchor up with the Hope and Anchor and had thought this discussion was referring to the latter.

I would concede that it would be preferable if they were to take cash, and I think they should be allowed to refuse more eccentric methods.

 

[marty21]

I have to confess, I had mixed the Crown and Anchor up with the Hope and Anchor and had thought this discussion was referring to the latter.

I would concede that it would be preferable if they were to take cash, and I think they should be allowed to refuse more eccentric methods.

There was a pub in Hackney that allowed you to pay in Bitcoin The Pembury Tavern I think, it's no longer the case as the Bitcoin accepting owners have now sold up.

 

[Pickman's model]

There was a pub in Hackney that allowed you to pay in Bitcoin The Pembury Tavern I think, it's no longer the case as the Bitcoin accepting owners have now sold up.

apparently the pizza there very good

 

[TruXta]

How many pints would a male fertile goat buy me?

 

[friendofdorothy]

Last time I went the C & A pub it was mostly younger people in there, but not so bad as to make me feel like everone's gran. Perhaps this is the owners way of making us old farts with our old fashioned paper money feel even less welcome.

 

[Badgers]

So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself? Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?

Have you actually been in there much?

 

[marty21]

Last time I went the C & A pub it was mostly younger people in there, but not so bad as to make me feel like everone's gran. Perhaps this is the owners way of making us old farts with our old fashioned paper money feel even less welcome.

I'm an old fart and I pay in cash or card , but mostly card nowadays.

 

[cuppa tee]

I have to confess, I had mixed the Crown and Anchor up with the Hope and Anchor and had thought this discussion was referring to the latter.

I would concede that it would be preferable if they were to take cash, and I think they should be allowed to refuse more eccentric methods.

 

[editor]

Have you actually been in there much?

I've been there a couple of times in the last year and my mate works there. How does that relate to the question I asked?

But how do you feel about a card only policy, particularly in light of the points raised in the article below?

According to the Financial Inclusion Commission, 1.5 million adults in the UK do not have a bank account – some, like recently arrived immigrants, because they lack the paperwork to open one. More than half of the 2.7 million people who rely mainly on cash have a household income of less than £15,000. They are being increasingly penalised as the best deals for utilities, telecoms and even train tickets are only available online to cardholders, while universal credit will only be transferred to a bank or building society account, without the previous option of cash cheques redeemable at post offices. And whereas before the ban on card surcharges only customers who chose to pay with plastic bore the cost of the transaction, now the poorest and the unbanked have to share the bill.

“Given a choice, millions of us will continue to use cash for decades to come, but Visa and Mastercard are determined to take that option away,” Clarke says. “Banks and card companies stand to make greater profits if cash disappears and their moves to slash funding for the cash network have seen machines close at an alarming pace. With cash gone, Visa and Mastercard’s stranglehold would intensify, leaving them free to hike charges on our day-to-day payments.”

The rise of cashless Britain: the poor suffer as banks and ATMs are closed

 

[snowy_again]

Transact are a bit better that the FIC - there's a more indepth geographical and segmented analysis on financial exclusion here:

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/app/uploads/2014/08/Financial-exclusion.pdf - the report's a bit old (2014), which covers the additional "poverty premium" of not having access to online financial services and explores the options around universal banking (but not the issue that some people may choose to be cash only). Alas no mention of brixton pubs.

And a link to the London Mutual Credit Union (Lambeth has a branch) which offers CU (not bank) accounts: FAQs | London Mutual Credit Union and is more accessible than most. Notwithstanding those recently arrived migrants / asylum seekers, people without documentation etc.

 

[alex_]

So why won't you condemn a boss who is intentionally disenfranchising some of his customers - most likely the poorest ones - just so he can make more profit for himself? Or is that the kind of capitalism you like?

Because it’s pathetic, I condemn Assad and trump not blokes who decide not to take cash in pubs.

Demanding people condemn minor actions is daily express style idiocy.

And it’s shooting the messager, the government needs to make bank accounts more accessible.

Alex

 

[editor]

Because it’s pathetic, I condemn Assad and trump not blokes who decide not to take cash in pubs.

Demanding people condemn minor actions is daily express style idiocy.

And it’s shooting the messager, the government needs to make bank accounts more accessible.

Alex

Ah right. So it's 'idiocy' to stand up for people on a local community scale? And not only do you not give a shit unless it's a global issue, you'll patronise, put down and insult anyone who does show concern because "it's pathetic."

This is the Thatcherite, "there's no thing such as society" line in action. Except if enough people voiced their approval in multiple ways, policies like this - which encourage social exclusion - can get reversed.

 

[alex_]

This is the Thatcherite, "there's no thing such as society" line in action.

Ah yes, if you disagree with me you are a Tory.

The urban equiv of Godwin’s law.

Alex

 

[alex_]

Ah right. So it's 'idiocy' to stand up for people on a local community scale? And not only do you not give a shit unless it's a global issue, you'll patronise, put down and insult anyone who does show concern because "it's pathetic.".

“Oh no, some people on the internet are angry with me”

Great support for the community.

 

[editor]

“Oh no, some people on the internet are angry with me”

Great support for the community.

If you don't think social media can have a very meaningful impact on businesses in the real world, I'm afraid you're a bit out of touch.

But despite your efforts to belittle anyone making valid criticisms, I'll never subscribe to your selfish attitude which seems to be best summed up as, "Let the bosses disenfranchise and exclude members of my own community as I can't be fucking arsed to care or do anything to support them. Because Trump."

 

[alex_]

If you don't think social media can have a very meaningful impact on businesses in the real world, I'm afraid you're a bit out of touch.

Pretty sure this isn’t social media

But despite your efforts to belittle anyone making valid criticisms

How dare I steal from your playbook.

 

[editor]

Pretty sure this isn’t social media.

 

[editor]

And here's a new article on the BBC which mentions the Crown and Anchor...

Millions 'will suffer without cash'

 

[Nanker Phelge]

I've found myself using my card more and more of late, although I dislike that every pint rings up on my bank account.

I was in a pub in Northampton this week that still wouldn't take a card for payments under a fiver. Given that most pints in NH are under £4 that's a bit daft, but not a problem because I always carry at least £20 in cash with me at all times.

There are lots of people who rely on cash still for all sorts of reasons (some mentioned in the BBC article and discussed quite a bit this morning on the bbc) and a 'cashless society' would exclude them and make it difficult for them (and many of them already feel excluded and have difficulties in their lives already).

Whatever the reasons the C&A are giving it basically comes to down to the removal of choice for their customers, and it does mean some people won't be able to use the pub any longer, and that does suck. The owner has made that decision for their own benefit, and not with customers in mind at all, so it feels like a selfish thing to do, but I am sure they are not too fussed about what I think, or that I won't be going there for a drink.

The research that informed the BBC article was commissioned by the European ATM Industry Association, so they have a vested interest in cash.

As for me, I'm just a punter and I like to be able to choose how I pay (especially this week as I get paid tomorrow and I have £50 in my wallet, and nothing in my bank, so a card only pub is no good to me in this situation).

 

[teuchter]

It's not like the current cash system is without its disadvantages. It's fairly well known that low income (and rural) areas tend to have a much worse provision of free ATMs. For those who are on low income but do have a card then a cashless system could be better, if it ends reliance on fee-charging ATMs and also the business of minimum spends on cards.
While for now I can see the argument for discouraging places to go cash free, in the longer term the solution surely is to demand better access to banking rather than trying to sort out the problem by focussing blame on businesses that make decisions about payment systems based on what the costs are to them of the various options.
If we're going to condemn cards-only businesses then we should also condemn cash-only businesses or those with minimum spends because they also have the potential to exclude folk on low income. How often do you see a fee-charging ATM a few doors down from a pub? They quite clearly make money off people who rely on cash and find that if they want another pint, they either have to walk miles to get to a free ATM, pay for a whole round to get over the spend limit, or go round the corner to be charged £1.25 to withdraw a tenner.

 

[SpamMisery]

I find the real benefit of card is the ability to monitor and, importantly, modify spending habits. If you gave me £1000 in cash today, I'd probably accurately state where I spent about half of it.

 

[Rushy]

I find the real benefit of card is the ability to monitor and, importantly, modify spending habits. If you gave me £1000 in cash today, I'd probably accurately state where I spent about half of it.

Barclays (I think) has brought out a new service which allows card holders to block payments for certain things on their cards e.g. Pubs and gambling.

 

[editor]

Whatever the reasons the C&A are giving it basically comes to down to the removal of choice for their customers, and it does mean some people won't be able to use the pub any longer, and that does suck. The owner has made that decision for their own benefit, and not with customers in mind at all, so it feels like a selfish thing to do, but I am sure they are not too fussed about what I think, or that I won't be going there for a drink.

Yep. I won't be going there either. But I'm sure there'll be plenty of people here providing endless excuses why the boss's decision doesn't suck, despite the clear evidence that it will affect some people negatively.