Chinese troops enter india
- Thread starter Pickman's model
- Start date
If their salami slicing got successfully beaten back by India, it would be a humiliation for them.
They are trying to position themselves as rivals to the US in a bipolar world a la the USSR, and they try to frame rivalry with India in those terms (e.g. India is a lackey of the US or being tricked by the US, rather than a player in its own right.) Being seen to be beaten back by India is a demotion of China from rival to the US for world hegemony, to rival of India for regional hegemony, and it contradicts the prevailing nationalist narrative in China of the inevitability of China retaking its supposedly natural place as world hegemon. Being beaten back by India just forces them into a difficult narrative position and is a bit of a blow to national ego which would prefer to see things exclusively in terms of a US vs China bid for global supremacy.
I think I made a thread about this a few years ago during the Doklam standoff where I argued that during the 2020s India's population will overtake China's and the economic gap between the two will shrink, which will likely cause a legitimacy crisis for the CCP by calling into question the inevitability of their "great rejuvenation", which essentially means a Sino-centric world order. I suspect this is part of the reason Chinese media has downplayed it, because the blow to "national confidence" would be quite big and they fear that would damage confidence in the CCP. So that's the lense I'm looking at things through and that's what I mean by humiliation.
JimW
支那暗杀团
That seems a bit tendentious. Of course domestically they're claiming to have seen off an Indian incursion across the LAC. Don't think the establishment of Ladakh as a separate union territory during Indian tinkering with the Jammu Kashmir dispensation has helped calm things down either, think the China side see that as aggressive revanchism. That's a larger change than any of the various bits of Chinese tinkering in the region.
My take is while they don't want to lose face over it as they do base legitimacy on "national integrity" nor is it a priority beyond not losing ground figuratively or literally. Reading it on into a wider picture again seems to be making whole cloth from scraps, I'm not sure they're half so bold as you imagine much as they may want to be.
I don't really disagree with anything you posted there, and I don't think it is incompatible with my interpretation of events either - that India's assertiveness took them by surprise and they haven't really figured out a meta-narrative which a rising India fits comfortably into, so they're prefering not to focus on it for now.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Yes, that sounds fair enough. I think I'm just a little less certain about how exactly full-on they are with the larger ambitions, I think there's more vacillation between bombast and caution than I thought you implied in the first post I quoted.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
not-bono-ever
meh
This isn’t the battle the PLA troops expected when they joined up
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
"They used rocks and iron bars". LOL etc. Like some out of control pub brawl.
not-bono-ever
meh
The Indian squaddies up there are pretty tough i hear, maybe the Military itself is a bit ropey and disorganised, but they have to trek up to the lines as roads and suchlike are crappy. The chinese have it easier and also have hyperbaric chambers for their lot
bimble
floofy
How long do these men get stationed up there for at a time I wonder. Beautiful as it looks in an austere desolate sort of way must be pretty severe as a posting. You might end up having a fight to the death almost for something to do after months and months of just patrolling the emptiness & eating whatever supplies you brought with you.
not-bono-ever
meh
They have their own lot who do this region - some kind of mountain special forces - name escapes me at the minute
JimW
支那暗杀团
Or what a bollocks Modi has made of the Covid outbreak.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
the meibion have already crossed the line of control and are poised, waiting for the reconquest to begin
bimble
floofy
Media so tied up there now it really doesn’t make any difference. It’s a bit like America you love the leader or you don’t , but if you don’t in India you don’t have a job as a journalist at any major outlet anymore.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Two lovely states doing what's best for their massive populations. Ahem.
It would be great if they could put their differences behind them because war is never good for anyone
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
The absence of bullets or artillery becomes a bit moot when they’re using nail studded steel bars such as this to inflict lethal force.
I do hope the leadership of each country can get their arses into gear and resolve things through diplomacy so more credulous squaddies don’t pointlessly club each other to death. Meanwhile dumbfuck Trump sits in his ivory tower turning tricks to get re-elected, while his incompetent foreign policy continues to destabilise the world.
Would China be so assertive with India now if Trump hadn’t been shaking them down over trade? Seems to me the Chinese are giving up on playing nice with the West and this little skirmish will be one of many examples of them asserting themselves with the rest of the world.
I do hope the leadership of each country can get their arses into gear and resolve things through diplomacy so more credulous squaddies don’t pointlessly club each other to death. Meanwhile dumbfuck Trump sits in his ivory tower turning tricks to get re-elected, while his incompetent foreign policy continues to destabilise the world.
Would China be so assertive with India now if Trump hadn’t been shaking them down over trade? Seems to me the Chinese are giving up on playing nice with the West and this little skirmish will be one of many examples of them asserting themselves with the rest of the world.
The Chinese are possibly using their weight as a superpower to threaten India regarding their attitude towards the West. The Belt and Road initiative from China is putting many smaller countries in the region in China’s debt. It’s looking like it’s squaring up time against the West, which for so long believed it had a right to trade and exploitation of the East.
bimble
floofy
I’d be very cautious about that gruesome picture where it came from & what for.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Meh. A weapon is a weapon. Bullets, nice, shiny curvaceous things, never did anyone any harm.
Ever seen a cluster bomb?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
according to the guardian, india used toddler troops in their 1962 war with china
www.theguardian.com
more seriously, though, the chinese seem to have been at this landgrabbing thing for quite some time and i wonder what will happen when the indians say 'thus far and no further'
'Our pastures have been taken': Indians rue China's Himalayan land grab
Exclusive: image obtained by Guardian shows substantial Chinese military structures erected despite agreements to disengage
more seriously, though, the chinese seem to have been at this landgrabbing thing for quite some time and i wonder what will happen when the indians say 'thus far and no further'
likesfish
You can't park here sir
You can pay to go to the Indian army school of mountaineering months of high altitude climbing for less than the cost of an ML course in the UK.
Ridiculously hard core though.
The glacier India fought Pakistan over was so high running to avoid a grenade you might die from altitude sickness
Ridiculously hard core though.
The glacier India fought Pakistan over was so high running to avoid a grenade you might die from altitude sickness
Some good news at least.
India, China reach pact to resolve border conflict, Indian foreign minister says
October 21, 2024
India, China reach pact to resolve border conflict, Indian foreign minister says
October 21, 2024
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