Cherry Groce - discussion and memorial news

[Pickman's model]

Cherry Groce was not killed - she was paralysed for many years. The Black serviceman memorial was created because people connected to the black people who died in the World Wars felt they had been forgotten. And it was paid for by the black community.

Cynthia Jarret - who died of shock being arrested for deportation in Tottenham, was a Tottenham perosn.
Quite right to have a Cybthia Jarrett memorial - in Tottenham. Cynthia Jarrett sounds like an early case of Windrush Scandal - something only recognised as a breach of civil rights in the last couple of years BTW.

You are correct to link the two in one way - Cherry Groce was shot a week before Cybthia Jarrett's manhandling resulted in her death- from not being able to breath I surmise.
BFI have a contemporary view of this, which I can;t remember if I saw. It does sounds like the sort of thing the Ritzy would have shown on its single large screen before it was captured by capitalism
BAFC’s key film Handsworth Songs, directed by group member John Akomfrah in 1986, was a response to the further waves of mass civil unrest that erupted nationwide – and specifically in the Birmingham district of the title – in 1985, following two incidents in which Afro-Caribbean mothers were victims. On 28 September, the police shot Dorothy ‘Cherry’ Groce in her Brixton home, paralysing her for life; a week later, on 5 October, Cynthia Jarrett died of heart failure during a police search of her home on Tottenham’s Broadwater Farm estate.

Handsworth Songs (1986)

www.bfi.org.uk

Maybe we should ask,the Ritzy to show it again for the opening of these monuments?

i was talking about the dedication of monuments to people who had their lives forever changed or ended by the police, i didn't think people would imagine i thought they should all be in brixton - just that they should receive commemoration. as for the war memorial - sorry, hadn't taken on board its singularity.

 

[Pickman's model]

Given that Cherry Groce was the victim of gun violence, do you think it is fair that only she should be commemorated ? Since 1985. dozens and dozens of people in Brixton have been shot, some crippled, some killed. The difference is that the people on your list died through incompetence and negligence while, all the other casualties are the result of deliberate premeditated violence. Surely all of them should commemorated.

i am not persuaded that any of the people on that list died through incompetence and negligence. diarmuid o'neill, for example, was complying with the police who shot him anyway. i think all of them died through the police following their orders, following their own policies. jean charles de menezes, for example, was killed to the letter of the operation kratos policy. i hold firmly to the view that each of those deaths was the result of deliberate premeditated violence.

 

[TopCat]

Given that Cherry Groce was the victim of gun violence, do you think it is fair that only she should be commemorated ? Since 1985. dozens and dozens of people in Brixton have been shot, some crippled, some killed. The difference is that the people on your list died through incompetence and negligence while, all the other casualties are the result of deliberate premeditated violence. Surely all of them should commemorated.

It's too hot to deal with cunts like you.

 

[Gramsci]

Im not at all happy about how this was all decided.

The local community was never given an opportunity to have any input into this memorial.

But the Council are now agreeing to underwrite it.

It also looks like the Council will have to maintain the memorial.

As the Foundation have obtained the planning permission for this memorial surely its up to them to raise the funds?

The Brixton Buzz article says extra funds will come out of Section 106/ CIL money.

This is money meant to provide services/ infrastructure to benefit local community. That is the point of it. Not to plug funding gap for a Foundations planned memorial.

The decision to use Section 106 / Community Infrastructure Levy definitely should have been consulted on.

Diversion of this money to the memorial means local people have lost out.

 

[Gramsci]

Also every time I hear

Aesthetically, I think it's monstrous. And it troubles me that this sculpture, erected in memory of a single person, thirty-five years after the event, so dramatically dwarves, overwhelms and diminishes the war memorial a few metres away. The shooting of Cherry Groce was terrible (but it was a stupid, incompetent accident), but no commentators have been able to discover anything of note that she did either before or after the shooting. On the other hand, the modestly proportioned war memorial commemorates the thousands of lives heroically sacrificed by men and women in WW2.

I wish that Lambeth would drop the humbug, and acknowledge the essentially political purpose of the Cherry Groce memorial - it's a big raised middle finger to the police.

I actually don't think its a raised finger to the police.

I do think the danger of a memorial like this is that it could let the police off. They have put money into it. This in their view could be the end of the matter. They have apologised and given the memorial some money.

This does not change the police main purpose they have- which to keep people in line. When it comes down to it they continue to do that. That is their function.

I think I would have preferred a memorial to all those who died at hands of the police. That would have been much more hard hitting.

After all the Police have their National Police Memorial by the Mall. So why shouldn't victims of police violence have theirs?

I do agree I have issues with memorial for one person.

Sean Rigg is another person who died in police custody in Brixton.

 

[CH1]

i was talking about the dedication of monuments to people who had their lives forever changed or ended by the police, i didn't think people would imagine i thought they should all be in brixton - just that they should receive commemoration. as for the war memorial - sorry, hadn't taken on board its singularity.

I was wondering if Normandy Road itself might be appropriate as a location. This is of course where Cherry Groce was living when the event happened.
The open space available looks to be grounds of the Cowley Estate. They would wish to be consulted I imagine.

I am concerned that Lambeth are constructing a sort of Valhalla in Windrush Square.
If they want to do this my own personal - and apparently unpopular view - is that Sir Henry's bust should be removed to inside the Tate Library - or on the front of it.

The Tate bust will become an historic anachronism with this modernist scaffolding type of monument being put up.
Actually it is also against the spirit of the Rush Common Acts, which were intended to preserve the -er - common.

The Sharpeville memorial is also modernist - but is very modestly sized. Maybe it should be given a more prominent site in the square, as it commemorates a signature event in awakening anti-apartheid consciousness.

I think what we actually need is one of those famous council community workshops to plan the use of the space on Windrush Square viz a viz statues, busts and monuments.

 

[David Clapson]

The police always get 100% of the blame. None of the publicity for the memorial explains why they raided her home. The day before she was wrongly shot by an incompetent badly trained officer, another officer had gone looking for Michael there, and Michael put his gun in the officer's mouth. BBC NEWS | Politics | 'My mum got caught in the crossfire'

 

[TopCat]

The police always get 100% of the blame. None of the publicity for the memorial explains why they raided her home. The day before she was wrongly shot by an incompetent badly trained officer, another officer had gone looking for Michael there, and Michael put his gun in the officer's mouth. BBC NEWS | Politics | 'My mum got caught in the crossfire'

That's a very contentious assertion. Back it up.

 

[CH1]

That's a very contentious assertion. Back it up.

Can you explain the BBC article then? Dated 2004 - so its 16 years closer to events that happened 35 years ago.
What I would take from that is that Michael Groce is taking some of the blame. If you are saying that the police never take the blame on themselves I would have to say that seems to be the case whenever deaths in custody occur.

If I was the Evening Standard I would give you 2 and David Clapson 1

 

[David Clapson]

I'm not taking your bait. It's pathetic.

 

[CH1]

I'm not taking your bait. It's pathetic.

About as pathetic as getting ordained when you are co-accused in the unlawful death of a mental patient?

 

[David Clapson]

My observation was about the publicity for the memorial. There's been a fair bit and it focuses on the police as the cause, not Michael. If you were new to the subject you could be forgiven for thinking that Cherry Groce's shooting has nothing to do with Michael's offences. If his gang life is airbrushed out of the picture, there's no motivation to give boys an alternative to gang membership. It seems to me that society accepts gang membership as an inevitable fact of life, something which just needs to be policed. The only positive programme I know of is Lorraine Jones' Dwaynamics, which can only help a few kids. A lot of them are stuck in the rut of no qualifications and poverty wages. Who is trying to change this? Some people have said we're at a turning point because of BLM protests and awareness of slavery, but I don't see how this will translate into better opportunities.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

In the grand scheme of things the “bad training” of the police officer would seem more of an issue than simply being someone’s Mum.

 

[Gramsci]

As accusation has been posted that Cherry Groce son contributed to her shooting here is Jury on the issue years later. Took that long as cops dragged their feet for years on this.

The jury found there were eight failures in total made by police. These included failures to properly brief officers that Michael Groce was no longer wanted by police. They also failed to adequately check who lived at the property, including women and children, and to carry out adequate observations on the house.

Officers should have called off the raid entirely during a police briefing but failed to do so, the jury found. However, they found there was no failure by police to call off the raid once it had begun.

Dorothy 'Cherry' Groce inquest finds police failures contributed to her death

Jury finds police failed to communicate properly during search for Groce's son in a planned raid at her home in south London

www.theguardian.com

So can their be no more distasteful posts insinuating that the police were not to blame for her shooting.

 

[Pickman's model]

My observation was about the publicity for the memorial. There's been a fair bit and it focuses on the police as the cause, not Michael. If you were new to the subject you could be forgiven for thinking that Cherry Groce's shooting has nothing to do with Michael's offences. If his gang life is airbrushed out of the picture, there's no motivation to give boys an alternative to gang membership. It seems to me that society accepts gang membership as an inevitable fact of life, something which just needs to be policed. The only positive programme I know of is Lorraine Jones' Dwaynamics, which can only help a few kids. A lot of them are stuck in the rut of no qualifications and poverty wages. Who is trying to change this? Some people have said we're at a turning point because of BLM protests and awareness of slavery, but I don't see how this will translate into better opportunities.

Given that Harry Stanley, Jean Charles de Menezes, Stephen Waldorf and many, many others shot by the police were committing no crime, had not been asked about any crime, and were nonetheless shot down like dogs, you might like to reconsider your ill-advised post

 

[GarveyLives]

Amid the racial onslaught faced by those now seeking to memorialise the Late Mrs Groce, a chance to hear from her family:

"Lee Lawrence was 11 when armed officers broke into his bedroom and shot his mother, paralysing her from the chest down. Has he finally found something close to justice? ...

‘The man who shot my mum is still living his life’: Cherry Groce's son on life after police brutality

 

[Gramsci]

Amid the racial onslaught faced by those now seeking to memorialise the Late Mrs Groce, a chance to hear from her family:




‘The man who shot my mum is still living his life’: Cherry Groce's son on life after police brutality

What racial onslaught? Have I missed something?

 

[CH1]

When is the memorial opening supposed to be ?
I had a peak through the awning today and there is some sort of steel framework recessed in the ground - looking as though it will be the base when concrete is poured.
Completion seems some weeks off.

 

[GarveyLives]

(Source: Press Association)

Lest We Forget 28 September 1985​

 

[TopCat]

What racial onslaught? Have I missed something?

Garvey lives pronounces. It must be so.

 

[TopCat]

I still very much look forward to paying my respects to Mrs Groce when it opens.

 

[GarveyLives]

It was very moving to hear one of Mrs Groce's children, Lee Lawrence, interviewed on BBC Radio Four's Women's Hour programme two hours ago.

 

[Pickman's model]

It was very moving to hear one of Mrs Groce's children, Lee Lawrence, interviewed on BBC Radio Four's Women's Hour programme two hours ago.

and the link you forgot is BBC Radio 4 - Woman's Hour, Cherry Groce; Gender Recognition Act; Should parents be friends with their children?

it's available to download

 

[madolesance]

So the contractors of this memorial seem to of removed any signs of their connection to it.

 

[GarveyLives]

It was very moving to hear one of Mrs Groce's children, Lee Lawrence, interviewed on BBC Radio Four's Women's Hour programme two hours ago.

...

... fortunately, the lions have their own lions.​

News of recent national recognition for the story of Mrs Groce and her family:

"Debut author Lee Lawrence has won the Costa biography award for a memoir about his lengthy quest to find justice for his mother, who was left paralysed after being shot by London police in 1985 ..."

Lee Lawrence’s memoir of his mother’s shooting by police wins Costa award

 

[GarveyLives]

News of recent national recognition for the story of Mrs Groce and her family:

Lee Lawrence’s memoir of his mother’s shooting by police wins Costa award

An absolutely brilliant book …: Lee Lawrence talks to Brixton Blog's Dave Randall about his prize-winning book that recounts the police shooting of his mother Cherry Groce in Brixton and its aftermath (includes transcript)

​

 

[DietCokeGirl]

So the contractors of this memorial seem to of removed any signs of their connection to it.

Site was full of litter and looked abandoned when I walked past on Sunday- anyone know whats happening? Delayed because of lockdown I assume?

 

[TopCat]

Site was full of litter and looked abandoned when I walked past on Sunday- anyone know whats happening? Delayed because of lockdown I assume?

I doubt its delayed by lockdown. Lots of building work going on everywhere. More likely an issue with the promised funds from Lambeth Council.

 

[editor]

Event on the 25th April

Together We Rise: Remembering Cherry Groce – memorial and online event on Sunday 25th April, 2021

The Cherry Groce Foundation will honour the memory of Ms. Cherry Groce with a memorial and online event on Sunday 25th April, 2021

www.brixtonbuzz.com

 

[TopCat]

So does the memorial look completed now may I ask?