If she wants to act like a bloke, she'll get slapped like a bloke...I've heard people say things like that before. I don't agree myself, but there you go. I'm a sexist pig.
Central London mob attacks people in Hyde park
- Thread starter The Black Hand
- Start date
If she wants to act like a bloke, she'll get slapped like a bloke...I've heard people say things like that before. I don't agree myself, but there you go. I'm a sexist pig.
scifisam
deleted
I was counting you as new to this part of the thread!
I've had a boyfriend who was a foot taller than me and a good 3 or 4 stone heavier who failed to pick me up. I managed to pick him up. In fact when I was tiny in width as well as height, 4'11'', and men would physically pick me up for their own amusement I would retaliate by picking them up. I even picked up a 17 stone bouncer once. I've spun a 15 stoner round and round and round.
I reckon I could take teuchter in a fight.
I pick you for my side in any fight.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I reckon I could take teuchter in a fight.
I reckon you could too. But, I reckon could probably beat you at Scrabble. Then who'd be looking like the wuss, huh?
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
You're lucky I'm on your side then.
Perhaps we should have a 2-part duel. Fight first, so I can bash you around the head then straight to scrabble.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I was counting you as new to this part of the thread!
I've had a boyfriend who was a foot taller than me and a good 3 or 4 stone heavier who failed to pick me up. I managed to pick him up. In fact when I was tiny in width as well as height, 4'11'', and men would physically pick me up for their own amusement I would retaliate by picking them up. I even picked up a 17 stone bouncer once. I've spun a 15 stoner round and round and round.
I reckon I could take teuchter in a fight.
I've been keeping up in a spare min, but not really posting, I s'pose up there *taps head* I still felt involved since tangling with Attica on it
I'm fairly strong myself and have had a few amusing moments testing that (controlled conditions, no rage
) with the b/f, I've always eventually lost but it's been funny to see that 'wtf 
' expression before kicking into overdrive *waits*
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I don't think giving it large about 'sexist pig' is entirely helpful tbh. Personally I don't have a problem (or feel 'demeaned') by men that don't hit women on principle. As I said earlier, 'equality' (for me) doesn't mean treating everyone the same. That way lies madness! Oh I've fucked up on the mental health front now but but but. Well I know what I meant
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I don't think giving it large about 'sexist pig' is entirely helpful tbh. Personally I don't have a problem (or feel 'demeaned') by men that don't hit women on principle. As I said earlier, 'equality' (for me) doesn't mean treating everyone the same. That way lies madness! Oh I've fucked up on the mental health front now but but but. Well I know what I meant
I do agree that if a woman hits a man, she should expect to be hit back. I can't stand women who take advantage of the taboo.
Although I do take advantage of it myself if I'm considering breaking up a fight - it's not safe for a bloke to step in, but if I there are men around I'll be protected if I get hit back.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I do agree that if a woman hits a man, she should expect to be hit back. I can't stand women who take advantage of the taboo.
Although I do take advantage of it myself if I'm considering breaking up a fight - it's not safe for a bloke to step in, but if I there are men around I'll be protected if I get hit back.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be decked if I was acting as a peace keeping force that's for sure. And I'm fucked if I'm going to keep a UN blue beret about my person just in case.
Thinking on that, I'm wondering if the best course of action in that scenario would be to usher people to one side, start a book on the outcome of the testosterone deathmatch, and be on hand swooping in with the elastoplast/999 when it all goes horribly wrong.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
The fact is, that there remains a culture amongst many men (and women for that matter) that respects physical strength and fighting ability as desirable qualities in a man, and tied up in this whole way of thinking is, for example, an expectation that as a man, if someone hits you (or even insults you) it's a matter of pride to hit them back. In this kind of culture, men (or at least the stronger ones) are constantly on the lookout for opportunities to fight, in order to maintain their status. I do think that the "never hit a woman" taboo stems from this kind of culture.
In a culture where physical strength/fighting ability is not particularly respected, and violence is only tolerated as a last resort, there is no need for such a taboo.
I think the "never hit a woman" attitude is in most cases very much a learnt thing, and you'll mainly find it amongst people who have grown up in situations where vestiges of that "fighting culture" remain, either explicitly or under the surface, or simply where the taboo has been inherited without most of the rest of the culture. I think that's what annoys me about it - it's because it represents that kind of culture, one which I have very little time for.
(The reasons I have little time for it being, briefly, that determining hierarchy on the basis of strength seems like a foolish way to organise a society where physical strength isn't actually needed to do most of the really useful things, and also that the principle of retaliation just leads to a vicious cycle of lots of people getting hurt to no useful end. But I would assume those are fairly obvious reasons.)
I think that if you are indoctrinated into that kind of thinking when you're a young boy, I guess as a result of listening to older men, who you are easily impressed by, then the "never hit a woman" mantra is going to remain with you quite strongly even if you move away from that culture and even if you're the type of bloke who would normally do everything possible to avoid violence. And I think this explains why many perfectly intelligent and non-violent men find it hard to give a rational reason why hitting a woman is intrinsically worse than hitting a man beyond saying "it just is, OK?".
At the same time, sometimes the "fighting culture" attitude stays, often alongside an even more extreme insistence on the "never hit a woman" line. Normally only to be revealed on a High street somewhere on a Friday night. These are men who enjoy fighting but more importantly, do believe that their status in their own eyes as well as others' is determined by their ability to inflict injuries on another man. Even if they don't feel fully comfortable about this. And I bet there are some of these guys reading what I have written on this thread, and thinking to themselves that for wont of better words I'm just a wuss, and being mightily unimpressed by my suggestion that, say, if someone hits me, or spits on my sister, or whatever, then punching them isn't an appropriate response.
I will be the first to admit that I am lucky (on the whole) not to have grown up in a situation where I had to prove myself through physical fights, and where most of the men I was around as a kid had the same sort of view as I do now. Had I grown up in a slightly different situation then maybe I'd be here defending the "never hit women" line as staunchly as any.
So that is my bit of amateur cod-sociology for the evening. I don't know if it helps explain why I feel rather strongly about this whole thing, and my suspicion of those who are super-insistent about never hitting a woman. I hope it also explains that I understand that someone who takes this line can also be perfectly civilised (in terms of what I believe to be civilised) and not wandering about the place looking for a fight. Whether or not my analysis of why they have such an attitude is correct.
In a culture where physical strength/fighting ability is not particularly respected, and violence is only tolerated as a last resort, there is no need for such a taboo.
I think the "never hit a woman" attitude is in most cases very much a learnt thing, and you'll mainly find it amongst people who have grown up in situations where vestiges of that "fighting culture" remain, either explicitly or under the surface, or simply where the taboo has been inherited without most of the rest of the culture. I think that's what annoys me about it - it's because it represents that kind of culture, one which I have very little time for.
(The reasons I have little time for it being, briefly, that determining hierarchy on the basis of strength seems like a foolish way to organise a society where physical strength isn't actually needed to do most of the really useful things, and also that the principle of retaliation just leads to a vicious cycle of lots of people getting hurt to no useful end. But I would assume those are fairly obvious reasons.)
I think that if you are indoctrinated into that kind of thinking when you're a young boy, I guess as a result of listening to older men, who you are easily impressed by, then the "never hit a woman" mantra is going to remain with you quite strongly even if you move away from that culture and even if you're the type of bloke who would normally do everything possible to avoid violence. And I think this explains why many perfectly intelligent and non-violent men find it hard to give a rational reason why hitting a woman is intrinsically worse than hitting a man beyond saying "it just is, OK?".
At the same time, sometimes the "fighting culture" attitude stays, often alongside an even more extreme insistence on the "never hit a woman" line. Normally only to be revealed on a High street somewhere on a Friday night. These are men who enjoy fighting but more importantly, do believe that their status in their own eyes as well as others' is determined by their ability to inflict injuries on another man. Even if they don't feel fully comfortable about this. And I bet there are some of these guys reading what I have written on this thread, and thinking to themselves that for wont of better words I'm just a wuss, and being mightily unimpressed by my suggestion that, say, if someone hits me, or spits on my sister, or whatever, then punching them isn't an appropriate response.
I will be the first to admit that I am lucky (on the whole) not to have grown up in a situation where I had to prove myself through physical fights, and where most of the men I was around as a kid had the same sort of view as I do now. Had I grown up in a slightly different situation then maybe I'd be here defending the "never hit women" line as staunchly as any.
So that is my bit of amateur cod-sociology for the evening. I don't know if it helps explain why I feel rather strongly about this whole thing, and my suspicion of those who are super-insistent about never hitting a woman. I hope it also explains that I understand that someone who takes this line can also be perfectly civilised (in terms of what I believe to be civilised) and not wandering about the place looking for a fight. Whether or not my analysis of why they have such an attitude is correct.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I'd never consider breaking up a testosterone death match - those kinds of twats can beat each other to death for all I care. I did it once when a tramp was getting beaten up by a drunken arsehole, and a couple of times when a barman was being threatened.
editor
hiraethified
You mean "working class culture," yes?
8ball
Check your privet hedge
editor
hiraethified
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It's certainly food for thought and there's so much that I agree with in that post teuchter, most of it. But I guess I did grow up in a fighting culture if that's the right term, with all of the 'rules' that went with that, so yes, the 'don't hit women' taboo doesn't send me off on one. That scrote with the tshirt though, he wants it all ways. Fighting response & hitting women. Where do you go from there - reason with him?
8ball
Check your privet hedge
Only asking a question...
I think all classes have had their history of finding ways to channel male aggression in a way that minimises harm - it's just that the working class expressions have perhaps retained more of their original character, or been less 'veiled' in their manifestation, perhaps.
The upper classes used to regularly kill each other in duels in certain times in certain places - they may have dressed it up in the language of manners and civility but the brutality was still there.
editor
hiraethified
I'm pretty sure you'll find that duels to the death amongst the aristocracy were far from everyday occurrences and a comparatively tiny amount of the 'upper classes' took part.
I'm really not following the relationship between duels of honour and the oik slapping a 15yr old girl at a water fight, to be honest.
8ball
Check your privet hedge
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Only asking a question...
Really? Sounds more like the standard last resort of a resoundingly philisophically beaten urbanite: Accuse them of attacking the working classes.
I was brought up in a working class family. Fighting was never part of its culture and I resent you making the association. I did not read teuchter's post as suggesting such, just you, couched in the form of a question.
Frankly, you've behaved like an arse on this thread imo. Something I don't expect from you. You've taken the posts of someone that have suggested nothing more than he is more violence-averse than you are yourself, and tried to imply he is anything but averse to violence towards women.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
If that correlates with your view of what working class culture is, then yes*. I don't know. I suspect what I describe is more prevalent in "working class" society than others, for all sorts of reasons, but I doubt exclusively so, and I also doubt every "working class" person subscribes to such a culture.
Personally, I find that turning this kind of discussion into a class thing misses the point and is a bit tedious.
Just because something is "working class" doesn't make it intrinsically good or bad, any more than something being common amongst any other "class" you choose to define.
Is your question a leading one, by any chance?
*E2A: to clarify, having read exactly what you quoted from me, the precise answer is "no", it is not "working class culture" that I have very little time for, it is the "fighting culture" I describe. That may or may not be a feature of "working class culture".
editor
hiraethified
I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm asking a question.
If you don't think street fighting and having an aversion to hitting women is rooted in working class culture, please give your reasons rather than having a pop at me. Thanks.
editor
hiraethified
Have I claimed that or even mentioned that? I simply asked a question to clarify your point.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
No, you didn't.
But I'm not quite sure why you asked the question. I'm not sure what bearing it has on the points I'm making.
editor
hiraethified
You started banging on about 'cultures.' I tried to identify which culture you were talking about.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
It would be interesting to know how he genuinely feels about the whole thing now, having seen it plastered across the media, maybe or maybe not misrepresented, and discussed by lots of people whose opinions he may or may not usually be exposed to. And how his mates are treating him - whether he has gained respect or is being shunned, or what.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
My point was not that street fighting didn't come from the working classes but that working class does not automatically mean street fighting culture. Your question, much like others toward tuechter on this thread seemed to me to be loaded, in this case with the suggestion that he was implying that working class = violent.
Your grin, I think, supports this.
My pop at you was about your other posts on this thread, where you implied that he advocates violence towards women with post such as this:
..when he had already made it more than plain that he didn't advocate any such thing. I'd also note that you continuously ignored the word strength, concentrating on size.
*I'm assuming you intended to type ''irrelevant'' here.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
There is truth in this. I think there would be an element of humiliation needing retribution in his act.
editor
hiraethified
I'm getting fed up with you trying to put words and thoughts in my mouth, but feel free to analyse this:
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I was banging on about the culture that I was banging on about, the one that I decided to refer to as "fighting culture" and tried to elaborate on in a fairly lengthy post. But hopefully we're all clear about that now.
I'm getting fed up with you trying to put words and thoughts in my mouth, but feel free to analyse this:
The thing is, though, you seem strangely reticent to make clear what you actually think.
Just asking for these "clarifications" and then declining to make further comment.
It seems you have strong opinions on the matter but are unwilling to go into any depth as to why you hold them.
editor
hiraethified
I've made my belief about not hitting women crystal clear, but I'll be buggered if I'm going to go along with any wildly improbable "ah, yes, but what if...." scenarios to entertain whatever point scoring flight of fancy is currently being pursued.
I have strong feelings about not going around stamping on cats* or mugging grannies too. How much 'depth' and detail do you need to understand that?
*But if it was a killer alien cat hellbent on forcing a nuclear meltdown, I just might. Same for a 12 foot woman looking to reduce Brixton to rubble with her evil hairslide
And this is why it's demeaning to women.
The whole "don't hit women" thing supports and perpetuates the idea that all women are "poor little dainty things" whom need, as a sex, to be treated differently than men and to be protected by men.
It's bollocks.
Woof
