Can I join the Army?

[mather]

There are always vacancies pretty much everywhere supporting people with learning disabilities and / or mental health needs. It's not amazing pay (minimum wage is the start but you wouldn't be on that for long if you got regular hours from one employer rather than an agency). As long as you aint working for an agency there can be career progression too - and it saves on being physically and psychologically bullied and broken by the military. No age limit on beginning, most companies / charities will offer on-the-job training leading to recognized qualifications (usually NVQs). The people you'll work with are mostly nice, decent people, and there are a number of career paths to follow from 'the bottom', so to speak.

I know you are trying to help but I'm starting to tire in having to keep repeating myself, I don't want to work as a professional carer or in social work. It is not for me and it is a career I have zero interest in. I only did it for my brother because I had to as there was no one else there for him. I don't have the emotional temperament nor patience for it.

If anything being a carer has fucked up my own mental health with all the stress and I feel like I'm in some type of mental prison. I want to break out of that.

That will certainly be the case if nobody wants to do the work.

I was alluding at the all the cuts, austerity and privatisation. There will always be those who love social work and will want to do it however I'm not one of those people.

 

[mojo pixy]

Fair enough.

 

[purenarcotic]

Lol, no I'm not that new but I thought you were trying to imply that I wasn't serious about signing up rather than anything political.

You will have to add me to leftie list as I am, politically speaking, a socialist and a Marxist. I'm not a pacifist though and were I alive back in 1939 I would have had no qualms about signing up and fighting against Germany. I just happen to think we should use our armed forces to defend this country, not for any imperialist adventures, invading/attacking countries that have no beef with us (Serbia/Iraq/Libya) or liberal interventionism.

But you could be sent to those kinds of conflicts and you'll have no say about it, you'll be expected to put up and shut up.

 

[5t3IIa]

Can you do admin? Ordinary office bollocks? How is your CV looking? I mean literally - does it look neat and professional and you're happy with it?

 

[TruXta]

If you really need money and are willing to do demanding and dangerous work that takes you away from your family, oil rigs or fishing trawlers might be a better bet than the Army.

No jobs on rigs anymore, plus you need some seriously expensive health and safety courses to even get on board one.

 

[mather]

It's worth baring in mind that recruitment into the forces is not quick - 6 months to a year is about average - if you need money now, go to Peterborough or Huntingdon and get agricultural/picking work. It's fucking hard grind, but the money is better than minimum wage.

You are not going to get into the forces given the way you describe your motivation. Given how much it costs to recruit someone, train them and have them leave 8 weeks into their career, the Army takes a great deal of care to try and weed out those who don't want it enough to get through the unrelenting grimness of phase one training. You don't - it appears - want to join for the right reasons, and you will bin it the fist time you throw up on a run, or get your kit thrown across the room because your uniform was stacked in the wrong order, or you wake up in wet clothes in the pissing rain on a bleak training area knowing you've a full days graft ahead of you.

I know that, and your recruiter will know that 5 minutes after meeting you.

Get your head sorted out, decide if the Army is something you want to do for yourself, and then think about it.

You may well be right but honestly the appeal of the Army is that it can give me direction, discipline, adventure and purpose, three thing I really need and that lacking in my life at the moment. Not many jobs, especially civilian jobs, are able to offer all of that. I didn't get that when I worked behind the bar or in nightclubs, I didn't get that stacking boxes in a warehouse and I didn't get that doing telesales.

I have been trying to get bar jobs as out of all the different jobs I had it was the most enjoyable and least stressful. That was my plan a year ago, get bar work to give me a wage and then use my spare time to try and develop my writing career and break into journalism and if I did make it as a writer/journalist then at some point I could give my day job and become a full time writer/journalist in my own right.

But I have had no luck with finding bar jobs recently because there are less of them about these days and the number of people after that type of work has increased dramatically.

 

[mojo pixy]

I know you are trying to help but I'm starting to tire in having to keep repeating myself, I don't want to work as a professional carer or in social work. It is not for me and it is a career I have zero interest in.

I felt just the same a few years ago btw. Without going into detail, I needed a job and the qualifications I actually had weren't getting me what I needed. I needed flexible, not-full-time work, that didn't bore me shitless. I didn't want to go agency and I'd had enough of being self-employed and constantly chasing new clients.

In the end I made a move into social care and I've never regretted it, despite my severe misgivings at the start.

 

[TruXta]

You may well be right but honestly the appeal of the Army is that it can give me direction, discipline, adventure and purpose, three thing I really need and that lacking in my life at the moment. Not many jobs, especially civilian jobs, are able to offer all of that. I didn't get that when I worked behind the bar or in nightclubs, I didn't get that stacking boxes in a warehouse and I didn't get that doing telesales.

I have been trying to get bar jobs as out of all the different jobs I had it was the most enjoyable and least stressful. That was my plan a year ago, get bar work to give me a wage and then use my spare time to try and develop my writing career and break into journalism and if I did make it as a writer/journalist then at some point I could give my day job and become a full time writer/journalist in my own right.

But I have had no luck with finding bar jobs recently because there are less of them about these days and the number of people after that type of work has increased dramatically.

You want to write yeah? Have you looked at freelance writing gigs? Upwork for instance?

 

[DownwardDog]

Nnnnnnnnngggggghhhhhhhhhhhgggg!¡!!!!!!!!!!!

(I'm being baited, must resist, I must resist!)

You know RAFR is the answer. This time next year LAC Mather could be pistol whipping drone protestors at Waddo with a Glock 17 before having a nice cup of Bovril and a look at an RC-135W.

 

[kebabking]

You know RAFR is the answer. This time next year LAC Mather could be pistol whipping drone protestors at Waddo with a Glock 17 before having a nice cup of Bovril and a look at an RC-135W.

or brassing up his own body armour after heroicly manning the barrier, eating ice creams and giving outside the wire The Thousand Yard Stare?

(i'm sorry, i'm weak, i couldn't resist it any longer - i'm a victim too...)

 

[mather]

PFA (personal fitness assessment) standards for your age:
46 press ups in 2 mins
41 sit ups in 2 mins
1.5 miles in 11 minutes

AFT(annual fitness test)
8miles carrying 20kg (infantry) in full kit in 2 hrs over varying (usually hilly) terrain

And that's just the must do fitness tests. Infantry regiments do AFTs for fun. It's HARD for older guys, even for ones that have been in for years and are conditioned to it.

But I think it would be the rank structure and lack of peers that would really have you. Being bawled out by some snippy little 20 something lance Jack etc. Honestly, look elsewhere.

Ok, I know I couldn't do that, not in my current physical state and I would need least a year of hard work and exercise to even get to such a state. As for the lance Jacks, I'd just end up in a lot of fights, lol.

 

[mather]

You know RAFR is the answer. This time next year LAC Mather could be pistol whipping drone protestors at Waddo with a Glock 17 before having a nice cup of Bovril and a look at an RC-135W.

or brassing up his own body armour after heroicly manning the barrier, eating ice creams and giving outside the wire The Thousand Yard Stare?

(i'm sorry, i'm weak, i couldn't resist it any longer - i'm a victim too...)

I have no idea what either of you are on about. Reminds me of being with my b/f, after leaving the Army he became a policeman and I never got all the in work jargon he would use.

 

[mather]

Can you do admin? Ordinary office bollocks? How is your CV looking? I mean literally - does it look neat and professional and you're happy with it?

Whatever I end up doing, it won't be office or sales jobs. Been there, done that and I hated it.

 

[DownwardDog]

As for the lance Jacks, I'd just end up in a lot of fights, lol.

Have honestly thought about what life in the forces is like? You live in very close proximity to your peers and have to learn to get along with them. If you get in a "lot of fights" two things will happen. A) you will get the absolute shit kicked out of you by somebody younger, stronger and meaner. B) you will end up at MCTC Colchester wherein the kicking you received in A) will seem pleasurable by comparison.

 

[mather]

Have honestly thought about what life in the forces is like? You live in very close proximity to your peers and have to learn to get along with them. If you get in a "lot of fights" two things will happen. A) you will get the absolute shit kicked out of you by somebody younger, stronger and meaner. B) you will end up at MCTC Colchester wherein the kicking you received in A) will seem pleasurable by comparison.

I don't go looking for fights but if anyone is an areshole to me I'll be an arsehole back to them, I generally treat others in the same manner they treat me. Haven't really had much fights recently but had enough of them at high school. I'll admit that I can snap and if someone is an arsehole then there are button they can push that would set off but isn't that true of everyone? I'm sure there are things people can do or say that would set you off.

 

[catinthehat]

Seconded. The memory of being made to clean a floor with a toothbrush for starting a sentence with 'I would have thought' (the response being 'it is not your job to think' followed by a lot of shouting then an order to clean the floor with said toothbrush) by a person that daily failed to get more than three words on a Sun crossword still stings. I imagine it is annoying to hear all these warning tales when you have identified a possible solution to your situation but its one of those jobs that you never know what it will be like till you are in it and as it features signing long contracts that can be hard or costly to get out of I hope you don't feel people are trying to put you off needlessly. Really once you are in there is no room for critical engagement with anything - you just do it and shut up or receive punishments that can be both cruel and unusual. For some people the peer groups, banter and such keep them going but if you have worries about people on the outside (and it is a case of being inside or outside - civillians are a breed apart once you are immersed) and/or dont fit with the group - which being slightly older might be the case (ask yourself how much laddish 'bants' and silly rituals you can deal with).

I really hope you do find a solution and all credit to you for putting your family firmly in your decision making.

 

[B.I.G]

I don't go looking for fights but if anyone is an areshole to me I'll be an arsehole back to them, I generally treat others in the same manner they treat me. Haven't really had much fights recently but had enough of them at high school. I'll admit that I can snap and if someone is an arsehole then there are button they can push that would set off but isn't that true of everyone? I'm sure there are things people can do or say that would set you off.

Please don't join the army. You seem fairly self-aware based on this post. This post and the army are not going to mix well.

 

[dessiato]

You mentioned earlier that you were a socialist and a Marxist. If you are on record or have joined any organisations it can mess with your vetting. I was in the military in my youth (1970's) and I guess these things do not change much. My Grandad was on record as being a communist in the 1930s and that held up my vetting for ten weeks (ten weeks of hell in Holding and Drafting Company). Different roles have different levels of vetting but I think if you were on record as being an active member of any thing Marxist related it could cause problems. Think rather than know.

This is what killed my career. I was in lust with a blond woman who was a member of the International Socialists who were IRA sympathetic. In an attempt to get my leg over I joined. Later it was pointed out that it was incompatible with my status as an officer. I was invited to leave.

 

[planetgeli]

Have honestly thought about what life in the forces is like? You live in very close proximity to your peers and have to learn to get along with them. If you get in a "lot of fights" two things will happen. A) you will get the absolute shit kicked out of you by somebody younger, stronger and meaner. B) you will end up at MCTC Colchester wherein the kicking you received in A) will seem pleasurable by comparison.

And then you'll get weekend release so you can go into Colchester town centre to drink and kick the shit out of students. And so the cycle continues.

(I went to the University of Essex, been there, fought with the squaddies. Not recommended.)

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

If you want physical work, surrounded by hard blokes, that takes you away from home for periods of time, has lots of camaraderie, doesn't require any formal qualifications and pays fairly well, don't join the army.

Become a roadie. Or, more specifically, what the industry calls "local crew". Essentially you unload trucks at arenas and other venues and move heavy as fuck boxes to where they're needed.

 

[hot air baboon]

This is what killed my career. I was in lust with a blond woman who was a member of the International Socialists who were IRA sympathetic. In an attempt to get my leg over I joined. Later it was pointed out that it was incompatible with my status as an officer. I was invited to leave.

...should have said you were on an under-cover mission...

 

[catinthehat]

...should have said you were on an under-cover mission...

But you should have been told that a winning smile makes a more convincing female.

 

[mather]

This is what killed my career. I was in lust with a blond woman who was a member of the International Socialists who were IRA sympathetic. In an attempt to get my leg over I joined. Later it was pointed out that it was incompatible with my status as an officer. I was invited to leave.

Lol, guys do the dumbest things when sex is involved, or even just the chance of it. I have done a few things that I'd rather forget.

 

[mather]

BTW, did you get lucky with her or was it all for nowt?

 

[spanglechick]

As I said in my last post, time is running out. As my brothers are getting older, some of the benefits and entitlements that they currently receive are due to end soon on account of their age. This means less money for my family all round and unless I can fill the gap, we will start going hungry. This year is literally make or break and for that very reason I can't afford to spend a year or three years at some university. I can't afford it timewise and moneywise as universities are not free and I literally have no money to pay to go to university and I refuse to get into debt for more studying. I have already incurred student debt from the one year I did at Kingston University before I dropped out and I have yet to pay back single penny for that debt.

Last year I did a three month course at City University in creative writing and journalism (writing is my one passion in life) and it only only cost me £350, which took me a bit of time to save up but was a manageable amount. I would like to become a freelance journalist, that is my dream career. But I know freelance work is not a guaranteed income and it's hard enough to to support myself on that, impossible if I want to support my family too. I have pitched a few articles (Morning Star mostly) but so far no luck, apparently other people pitched their articles on the same topic and got in there before I did. I'm not going to give up on trying to get into journalism/writing but it is going to be a long process, my tutor told me as much during my course.

If anyone has ideas of getting into journalism then I am all ears but social work is not for me.

This is why I mentioned degree level apprenticeships. You get paid (apprenticeship wages but better than nothing) while you earn your degree in a workplace environment, and you pay no fees.

There are some very good employers offering these. Right now the national theatre has one in technical theatre, which I know is a world-class bit of training. It may well be that you can get them in writing, or loads of other non office-based careers.

 

[mather]

Speaking of dumb things, I should have joined when I was younger as it was something I considered but from what everyone here has told me it looks like I have left it too late, especially after seeing what is required of me physically and the personal fitness programme. As I said before I'm not gonna rush with anything, I need some time to just clear my head and think clearly about what I want to do and what I need.

But a huge thanks to all of you, you have been great and very informative and helpful. I'm gonna keep you all updated as to what I am doing, I feel kinda obligated to now as you have all spent so much time and effort helping me out.

A big to you all.

 

[kebabking]

BTW, did you get lucky with her or was it all for nowt?

dessiato probably fell out of the window while trying to take his pants off...

 

[dessiato]

I didn't get lucky. I didn't see her again either. Her husband was an ok sort though.

 

[not-bono-ever]

anyway mather - there are options out there but they will likely take a bit of commitment and maybe a longer term planand getting some more qualifications/ skills. I was only half jking about accountancy as well- a couple of friends did at as a desperate last resort for security and it worked out OK for them -took some time though - neither of them were obvious candidates for it either

 

[urbanspaceman]

Mather

I just came across this thread, and was struck by the patience and sympathy of my fellow U75ers. Despite their advice and insights, you seem to have decided to wait until you’re another six months older, and then try to get into the army, presumably no fitter than you are now, since “you don't really do running”, and “haven't been to a gym in the last two years”. So, I’m going to try something different.

Here is a list of suggestions you rejected:

• Education: I found Uni shit
• Admin: I don't want an army desk job
• Engineering/Technical: Engineering is the last thing I would want to do, I hate the subject it bores me to death.
• Medical: I have never wanted to do anything medical
• Aviation/technical: never wanted to be a pilot and I'm not good with tech
• Accountancy: never in a million years would I ever want to become an accountant
• Law: law/legal work is the very last thing I would want to do
• Social Work: I don't want to work as a professional carer or in social work
• Sales/Admin: Whatever I end up doing, it won't be office or sales jobs
• Maritime: I hate the sea and the idea of being on a ship all the time would bore me shitless

You are constructing a trap for yourself, talking about joining the army, while delaying actually doing something about it. Now, I’m the ultimate civilian, but I work with soldiers leaving the army during their transition to the civilian world. And this I can tell you, your idea of joining the army is a threadbare fantasy. Your notion of army life bears no relation to its actuality, which is quite mundane and highly social, requiring you to be around your fellow soldiers all the time, while not irritating them. You have no experience of working in teams with other adults. You will be required to follow orders, and people will undoubtedly be “arseholes” to you. And you will be expected to suck it up.

Your idea of army life is like something from “Call of Duty”, a teenage fantasy:

• Would consider being a sniper - you could only compete to apply for sniper school after a few years, and temperamentally snipers are a rare breed
• Anything combat heavy, infantry most likely - few soldiers are true warriors, who live for combat. You’re not one of them, as you are a 36-year-old civilian
• Marxist/use our armed forces to defend this country – they will spot your various political postures during recruitment, and reject you. They don’t need a troublemaker in ranks, getting on his colleagues’ nerves
• I'd just end up in a lot of fights – and be discharged pronto
• if anyone is an areshole to me I'll be an arsehole back – it doesn’t work that way
• I have no idea how I would react to killing someone – psychodrama
• losing my leg or arm or dying in some ditch in some warzone – more CoD psychodrama

Unless you can successfully dissemble completely during the application process, consistently portraying yourself as a different person, you won’t be accepted. The Army has been recruiting and assessing people for a long, long time, so my money is on the Army seeing through you.

You’re picky:

• I'm kinda done with places that are just job sites/recruitment agencies
• I need a guaranteed job offer, not a process of interviews (by the way, what makes you think the Army works differently ?)
• I'm fed up with interviews that lead nowhere. For me this is the deal breaker

Well, that’s how the world works for the rest of us. Is there any reason why things should be different for you ?

I would like to become a freelance journalist, that is my dream career – and you already have it. You are a freelance journalist, right now.
If anyone has ideas of getting into journalism – write articles. Write more. Write well, about interesting topics, from an original perspective. And keep at it until someone pays you for it.
Journalists must have an eye for detail. Why might this wording be rejected by an editor: “the appeal of the Army is that it can give me direction, discipline, adventure and purpose, three thing I really need”

You come across as angry, miserable, negative and aggressive. And unless you possess valuable counterbalancing skills, people will avoid the hassle of dealing with you. I suggest:

1. Visit your GP and find out whether a course of SSRIs might help ameliorate your mood
2. Start writing – decide on a topic that fascinates you, research the hell out of it, interview people in the field, and write some interesting and unexpected words
3. Get a job, any job. It’s not forever, but it will get you out of the house and into the world. This is London – jobs do exist for people capable of deploying the basic suite of interpersonal, manual, verbal and quantitative skills. Then a get a better job, and rinse and repeat.
4. Do it now. London is not kind, neither is it cruel. It's indifferent, but it does hold opportunities. You as a 36-year-old adult, are solely responsible for making your life.