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Brixton's trams: archive photos and the underground station that never was

Crispy said:
It's two different buildings
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Indeed.

The top photo (marked "Streatham Hill" but generally known as either Streatham or "Telford Avenue" depot) was completely demolished, and a new bus garage built on the site in 1951, the bus garage is still in use, as Arriva's Brixton garage (east side of Streatham Hill, opposite junction of Telford Avenue) - it was re-named "Brixton" in 1951 to avoid confusion with the existing Streatham Bus Garage (see later).

recent-ish photo here - http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/02/90/029051_17f32e3d.jpg

The second photo (the surviving building) was "Brixton Hill" tram depot which was (operationally) an annexe of Telford Avenue. It was not needed for buses in the 50s, but was brought back into (bus related) use in recent years after being used for other purposes.

Historic photos of Brixton Hill depot at - http://www.tramway.co.uk/smx/photos/photo/?id=11275 and http://www.tramway.co.uk/smx/photos/photo/?id=11384

Streatham bus garage is neither of these two - it is / was on the west side of Streatham Hill, near the junction of Natal Road, and is now (I believe) used as a go-karting track (although part of the land is still used as a bus terminus.) This building dates from the early 80s, and is on the site of an earlier (London General) bus garage. Unfortunately, the optimism of the early-mid 80s that led to a number of bus garages being rebuilt or refurbished didn't last, and the cuts of the later 80s saw the (modern) garage closed.

recent photo here - http://assets1.qypecdn.net/uploads/photos/0024/7157/10651565_gallery.jpg?27767

There is an excellent book (I believe out of print now) titled "The Wheels Used to Talk to Us" - the reminiscences of a tram (later bus) driver who was based at Clapham and Telford Avenue depots from the 20s to the 60s, which contains a lot of pictures of the area from the cable tram days onwards.

Plenty more London tram photos at http://www.londontramways.net/index.php and http://www.tramway.co.uk/smx/photos/
 
Puddy_Tat said:
The second photo (the surviving building) was "Brixton Hill" tram depot which was (operationally) an annexe of Telford Avenue. It was not needed for buses in the 50s, but was brought back into (bus related) use in recent years after being used for other purposes.
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That's great - thanks. I'll update the article.
 
editor said:
Yes please!

Cheers for the update Crispy: I've now reworded the caption to say, "The building above has now been demolished and rebuilt as Streatham Bus Garage, but this original LCC Tramways building a little further down the road towards Brixton survives."
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Still wrong!

The bus garage on Streatham Hill opposite Telford Avenue is Brixton Bus Garage. For years, people heading out of Brixton heading for Streatham Hill were confused by this, and stood at the bus stops by the tube while buses to Streatham Hill sailed past with misleading destination boards saying Brixton Garage.

London Buses finally renamed the bus stop (and terminating point for bus routes) as Telford Avenue only about eight or nine years ago.

Streatham Bus Garage was next to Streatham Ice Rink (having been closed down following the privatisation of London Buses, the building is currently a Go-Kart track while waiting for Tesco to get their finger out with the "Streatham Hub" redevelopment)

The Brixton Hill tramway depot building was not used as a bus garage after the end of tram services. It was occupied by Stratstone Garages, who created the now overgrown garden outside. It was bought back by London Buses about five years ago (?) following the increase of bus services in the first Livingstone mayorship to provide the extra bus berthing capacity lost because of the sale of Streatham Bus Garage.
 
lang rabbie said:
Still wrong!

The bus garage on Streatham Hill opposite Telford Avenue is Brixton Bus Garage. For years, people heading out of Brixton heading for Streatham Hill were confused by this, and stood at the bus stops by the tube while buses to Streatham Hill sailed past with misleading destination boards saying Brixton Garage.

London Buses finally renamed the bus stop (and terminating point for bus routes) as Telford Avenue only about eight or nine years ago.

Streatham Bus Garage was next to Streatham Ice Rink (having been closed down following the privatisation of London Buses, the building is currently a Go-Kart track while waiting for Tesco to get their finger out with the "Streatham Hub" redevelopment)

The Brixton Hill tramway depot building was not used as a bus garage after the end of tram services. It was occupied by Stratstone Garages, who created the now overgrown garden outside. It was bought back by London Buses about five years ago (?) following the increase of bus services in the first Livingstone mayorship to provide the extra bus berthing capacity lost because of the sale of Streatham Bus Garage.
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I'd actually corrected the page before you posted this, but there's some useful info in there, so I'll update it yet again.

This is hard work - but thanks very much for everyone's input!
 
There were tram tracks visible in the pavement surface outside the tramshed until very recently - when did those brick pavers get laid :confused:

The Brixton Hill shed was apparently built to house "tram trailers" drawn behind a regular tram - but had only just been completed in 1923 when they were withdrawn from service. Was there some horrific accident involving one in the mid/late 20s that meant a loss or public confidence?

http://www.brixtonsociety.org.uk/trams.htm
 
lang rabbie said:
There were tram tracks visible in the pavement surface outside the tramshed until very recently - when did those brick pavers get laid :confused:
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don't know, but (as elsewhere in London) there are still LCC Tramways manhole covers on the west pavement on Brixton Hill.
 
lang rabbie said:
Was there some horrific accident involving one in the mid/late 20s that meant a loss or public confidence?
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Not that i am aware of. the trailers had a number of drawbacks -

the additional weight of pulling one meant that the tram (and any conventional trams behind it) could not travel as quickly

the trailers were open-top, which was less passenger-friendly (at this time, the LCC Tramways were pretty much in competition with the buses, and were able to use 'all enclosed' as a selling point before the buses could - buses improved considerably between 1913 when trailer trams first saw the light of day and 1922/3 when the decision was made to get rid of them)

they were a bit of a pain in the tail at terminus points, as (with a few exceptions) most London tram terminals involved a dead-end with the tram reversing and going back rather than going round a loop. with a conventional tram (that's exactly the same at each end) a 'reverse' is quite simple, but less so if there's a trailer in the way. Even on routes (like Embankment - Tooting) where there was a loop at each end, a trailer set would have been more difficult to turn back if there was an obstruction / problem.

http://www.londontramways.net/search/tram_picsview.php?pic_id=26653 has a picture of a tram / trailer set - somewhere on the Tooting - Embankment route.
 
editor said:
I'd actually corrected the page before you posted this, but there's some useful info in there, so I'll update it yet again.

This is hard work - but thanks very much for everyone's input!
Click to expand...


You might have to update your picture page Editor in light of tonight's fire ;)
 
teuchter said:
I recently discovered there used to be a tram depot at Loughborough Junction... it's gone and been replaced with housing now but the street is still called "Tram Close"...

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...1.464188,-0.101506&spn=0.004258,0.010353&z=17
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The Google pin is in the wrong place - Tram Close is off Hinton Road opposite the junction with Wanless Road

BTW I'm not sure the Tram Close site was a tram depot - I think that number 48 trams (normal destination West Norwood) were sometimes turned there around the one way tram line loop that used to run around the Wanless Road block
 
lang rabbie said:
BTW I'm not sure the Tram Close site was a tram depot
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Hmm. Certainly not a depot in electric tram days (i.e. after 1908/9).

The Norwood routes ran from Norwood Tram Depot, not to be confused with Arriva's Norwood bus garage which is a different building on a site that always was a bus garage. Assuming it's not been demolished since Google Maps last updated, Norwood Tram depot appears now to be Access Self Storage, here - Norwood tram depot was never converted to be a bus garage, the allocation moving to the (then new) Stockwell garage when it opened.

The definitive history of the LCC Tramways has a section on the London Southern Tramways company, and refers to the company renting a number of railway arches from the LBSC Railway "at or near Cold Harbour Lane" as a secondary stables for sick horses, a granary and works. The actual location is not identified, and this could well be the Hinton Road site.

Not every "tram" related building was a tram depot - the "Tram Shed" theatre in Woolwich was an electrical sub station...

</anorak>
 
You're probably right about the depot Lang Rabbie - I'm now trying to remember how I got it into my head that there was one there. I've got a 1914 map of the area - thought I'd seen it on there but I've just checked and frustratingly it's just off the edge of the map.
 
Have you read Stan Collins' book "The Wheels used to talk to us" ? - the definitive social and economic history of Brixton and South London trams -

I have a much treasured copy :D

Totally and utter superb - bought 25 years ago in the LT shop.
 
teuchter said:
You're probably right about the depot Lang Rabbie - I'm now trying to remember how I got it into my head that there was one there. I've got a 1914 map of the area - thought I'd seen it on there but I've just checked and frustratingly it's just off the edge of the map.
Click to expand...

Just found my copy of the 1913 Brixton & Herne Hill map. Looks as though I was slightly wrong - there were twin tram lines along Wanless Road and Herne Hill Road which then narrowed to single track for short stretch when they turned south into Milkwood Road.

According to the Herne Hill Society, the lower level rail bridge on Hinton Road had insufficient clearance to get a double decker tram under it so the route was changed.

Regular horse-tram services had arrived in Herne Hill in 1884. From Loughborough Junction, trams passed under the railway bridge at Hinton Road and along the length of Milkwood Road. Electrification and double-decker trams came in the early 1900s when the London County Council took over the service. The bridge over Hinton Road was too low; and part of Milkwood Road was too narrow to take two tram lines. The route one way was changed to Herne Hill Road, Wanless, Poplar and Lowden Roads, then taking the old route via Milkwood Road to Herne Hill station and Norwood. The trams were phased out in the 1930s in favour of buses.
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So who suggested the name for the new Close???
 
Here's a pic of a tram on Milkwood Road:

milkwood.jpg


http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/milkwood.html
 
That must be the southern end though, with that northbound tram heading up the rest of Milkwood Road and you can see the southbound lines coming from the Lowden Road/Poplar Walk Road (now Poplar Road to avoid confusion with Poplar Walk!) loop.

Looking at the 1913 map, the one way working bit was a bit further south than I thought.
 
Thread bump - there's another couple of transport related sites you might like to add sometime

Firstly, the Effra Road ticket / printing works (now site of the retail park at 51-53 Effra Road - Currys / Halfords)

Opened in 1928 by the London County Council tramways, the works was responsible for printing many of the tickets issued on London's trams and trolleybuses, making ticket rolls post 1950s, assorted printing tasks, and the maintenance of tram / bus ticket punches and machines. The works superintendent from its early days into the 50s was Mr George Gibson, who designed and developed the 'Gibson' ticket machine. The early prototypes were made at Effra Road, but production was at Tring, Herts.

The works was rebuilt post-war following air raid damage, and closed during the privatisations of the mid 80s.

I can't find photos of the building from the outside on either Lambeth or LT Museum website, but pictures of the works in action include this, this, this, this (described as 'Stockwell')

Secondly, the Waterworks Road garage which was the London General Omnibus Company's base for private hire coaches. Opened in 1927, and closed in 1937 when the private hire fleet was moved to Old Kent Road garage instead.

Building in 1936 - and today (or whenever Street View last updated)
 
Also, going back to the cable trams - will this thread stretch as far as Kennington? (the northern end of the cable tram section - the traditional horses were used between Kennington and either Westminster or Blackfriars Bridge)

If so, the site at 20 Brixton Road, Kennington, is worth a mention.

This was (in cable tram days) a small depot (for one or two trams), stables, and office, as well as housing cable tensioning equipment. (described as having a central arch for the tram, an entrance for horses on one side of the centre, and an entrance for staff on the other)

At electrification, there was an electrical sub-station on the site, which was taken out of use in 1912 when a larger sub-station at Vauxhall was taken into use.

1912 picture on Lambeth 'Landmark' web page here

Today, the building is an Italian Catholic Mission Centre - Streetview image here

The history of the LCC tramways lists the sub-station as "20 Brixton Road, Brixton" and does not make any connection with the cable car depot, but I think the 1912 postcard demolishes that.

It is not entirely clear whether the current building was the cable car depot, whether it was a re-construction of it, or was built on the site of it. I can't find any photos of the cable car depot as such (i suppose you can't expect too much for pre-1903) but the written description seems to match the current building fairly well.

The "Cable Restaurant & Snack Bar" at 8 Brixton Road commemorates the operation (when I worked in Kennington in 1986/7 and occasionally lunched there, it seemed to be the unofficial canteen for bus crews on the 3 and 159 routes based at Camberwell garage but having their breaks at Kennington. And the unofficial office for the bus inspector)
 
It's a church, rather than a 'mission centre' isn't it? I certainly know Italians in the area who go to mass there and there's not a whiff of the missionary about them.
 
Puddy_Tat said:
Firstly, the Effra Road ticket / printing works ....
Click to expand...

I think I have dropped a bollock - from further reading (it was that sort of weekend, and insomnia does this sort of thing) there were 2 sites in Brixton, Effra Road was the printing works, and Stockwell Road (hence the reference to Stockwell - can't find an actual address yet) was the ticket punch / machine works

From what I can gather, both got combined at Effra Road in the mid 50s - presumably when the latter was rebuilt after war damage.

More to follow if I can find it.

Mrs Magpie said:
It's a church, rather than a 'mission centre' isn't it? I certainly know Italians in the area who go to mass there and there's not a whiff of the missionary about them.
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I think it's "mission" in the sense of being an outpost abroad presumably staffed by Priests seconded from Italy, rather than "missionary" as in going out and trying to convert people. I've used the description used on Lambeth Council's website and elsewhere.

From what I can gather, yes there is a church / chapel within the building (I'm not quite sure what the difference is) as well as other functions (meeting rooms etc) in the building.
 
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