Brixton violence and looting (7th Aug 2011)

[ShiftyBagLady]

I didn't say things don't happen for a reason. There are deep soietal problems when grown adults with jobs, good educations and prospects choose to go out and indulge in looting miles from where they live and work.

But to sweep over everything as beinga case of those with nothing to loose lashing out is clearly not the whole story. Hurling personal abuse at me doesn't alter the facts behind some of those up in court.

You don't need a doctorate in social psychology to know that rage and resentment (and yes, greed too) will sweep through a crowd as fast as fear if the conditions are right. These educated adults surely identified with the mood of the day, instead of demonising them why don't we identify what that feeling is and how it came to be.

 

[Emet]

I hope these 'educated adults' get the longest prison sentences allowable under the law.

 

[TruXta]

I agree wholeheartedly that Lambeth has been a Nu Labour experiment for years ; I'm not blaming the government for anything ; and I suspect strongly from what you've written that you don't even know what party I represent.....

I don't give a damned which party you're with, AFAIK none of you are doing much to reverse the declining standards of living in Lambeth. You rather choose to bend over for Tescos, big developers or any number of other scumbags, hiding behind lovely words about "the community", "cooperation", "listening" and endless reams of politico shite, whilst business as usual goes on in Town Hall. I don't believe for a second that if Lambeth became a LibDem council things would change for the better. Why would it when Clegg himself predicted these riots a year ago, warning that if Tory policies were enacted the social compact would suffer?

 

[Greebo]

I don't give a damned which party you're with, AFAIK none of you are doing much to reverse the declining standards of living in Lambeth. You rather choose to bend over for Tescos, big developers or any number of other scumbags, hiding behind lovely words about "the community", "cooperation", "listening" and endless reams of politico shite, whilst business as usual goes on in Town Hall. I don't believe for a second that if Lambeth became a LibDem council things would change for the better. Why would it when Clegg himself predicted these riots a year ago, warning that if Tory policies were enacted the social compact would suffer?

^This. Couldn't have said it better, and certainly not with as few swear words.

 

[Belushi]

I don't give a damned which party you're with, AFAIK none of you are doing much to reverse the declining standards of living in Lambeth. You rather choose to bend over for Tescos, big developers or any number of other scumbags, hiding behind lovely words about "the community", "cooperation", "listening" and endless reams of politico shite, whilst business as usual goes on in Town Hall. I don't believe for a second that if Lambeth became a LibDem council things would change for the better. Why would it when Clegg himself predicted these riots a year ago, warning that if Tory policies were enacted the social compact would suffer?

Spot on. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

 

[Rushy]

You don't need a doctorate in social psychology to know that rage and resentment (and yes, greed too) will sweep through a crowd as fast as fear if the conditions are right. These educated adults surely identified with the mood of the day, instead of demonising them why don't we identify what that feeling is and how it came to be.

It's one thing to understand that, however unacceptable you might think it is, looting has roots in pent up frustration from social exclusion. But I can't quite get my head around the concept that looting might be considered a justifiable expression of identification, empathy or support for the excluded.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

I don't believe it is a justifiable expression of their frustration. Rather that their frustration and anger resulted in a disinhibition.

Let me expand on that because it sounds a bit wanky.
It's not an easily justified thing; we, broadly speaking, all feel that criminal damage and theft is wrong, it violates laws which maintain order in society. We like order. I don't believe that frustration is a valid reason for breaking laws.
These looters however, were disinhibited because the laws mean little to them. I've said before (on this thread i think) that they're disinterested in Us because we are disinterested in Them.

 

[London_Calling]

Worst field trip EVAH.

ed: for clarity

 

[quimcunx]

Approximately one million police vehicles just headed down the hill. Most only had lights, not sirens. hmm. Although I'm trying to think whether they were pelting down there as fast as normal.

 

[Gramsci]

A 31yr old employee of Stockwell Primary School pleaded guilty to looting in court today.

Lives in Battersea and works in Stockwell/Brixton, but was caught looting Richer Sounds in Croydon !? Also lives with his mum.

Other occupations listed for those pleading guilty last night included a number of university graduates, apprentices, a graphic designer, an army recruit, a forklift driver and a social worker.

So much for the theory that it was people with no hope lashing out at society. Pure opportunistic theft and recreational thuggery was the order of the day.

A bit of history is relevant. If u think this is the case do you object with the 81 riots in Brixton being celebrated recently as an "Uprising"? I remember the riots that happened in the 80s. During the 81 riot there was looting and destruction of of local businesses. Also the Fire Brigade were attacked when they arrived on the scene.

I didnt notice politicians complaining about the recent anniversary of 81.

The logic of your argument is that all rioting is inexcusable and people should always use the correct institutional channels and democratic procedures. However much they fell aggrieved and not listened to. Is this your position?

 

[Gramsci]

Saw lots of Police vans today from different part of the country in central London - including Wales

 

[Fingers]

apparently 200 or so EDL kicking off in Brixton, a tonne of Welsh plod heading that way now. They are going to be outnumbered about 1000-1

 

[quimcunx]

You jest surely?

Actually on twitter on sunday evening an edl guy tweeted that it was nonsense, he is at b splash and no trouble.......

I thought it very odd.

 

[bi0boy]

apparently 200 or so EDL kicking off in Brixton, a tonne of Welsh plod heading that way now. They are going to be outnumbered about 1000-1

Where did you get that from?

Are you sure you don't mean "Eltham" instead of Brixton, "some people" instead of "EDL" and "kicking off an hour ago" instead of "kicking off"?

 

[Gramsci]

I agree wholeheartedly that Lambeth has been a Nu Labour experiment for years ; I'm not blaming the government for anything ; and I suspect strongly from what you've written that you don't even know what party I represent.....

I didnt think u would blame the Government as u have said before ur LibDem.

Going back to historical context again. In the 80s when the Thatcher governments policies started to bite there was an increase in social disorder.

From what ive seen since your Government came to power there are signs that this is happening all over again.

But this time there is no strong civil organizations to channel peoples anger and resentment. Thatcher weakened the Trade Union movement for example. This is what is most concerning and could lead to further trouble in future as the cuts really bite.

 

[5t3IIa]

Oh FML. I'm getting on the 133 in a sec

 

[gaijingirl]

apparently 200 or so EDL kicking off in Brixton, a tonne of Welsh plod heading that way now. They are going to be outnumbered about 1000-1

I doubt this is actually happening.

 

[Fingers]

Yeah just found out it was Eltham and they were EDL. Video of them attacking some black guys on a bus for you to peruse

http://twitpic.com/6421m9

 

[quimcunx]

There would be a lot more sirens keeping coming if it was true.

 

[Gramsci]

apparently 200 or so EDL kicking off in Brixton, a tonne of Welsh plod heading that way now. They are going to be outnumbered about 1000-1

The Welsh fighting the English again.

 

[ajdown]

From the BBC news live feed:

2151: Scotland Yard has named the 26-year-old man who died after being found shot in a car during riots in Croydon as Trevor Ellis, of Brixton Hill.

 

[Greebo]

From the BBC news live feed:

2151: Scotland Yard has named the 26-year-old man who died after being found shot in a car during riots in Croydon as Trevor Ellis, of Brixton Hill.

They'll have tracked down his next of kin then.

 

[Gramsci]

Hindu Business Line news:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/economy/article2342347.ece

Armed with swords and hockey sticks, over 700 Sikhs took to the streets last night to protect the Guru Singh Sabha gurdwara in Southall as the police were stretched to maintain law and order on the streets of London.
Local vigilante groups have been formed in various areas in London to protect homes and business establishments that have been vandalised by rioters — mainly of Afro-Caribbean origin — in London over the past four days

This is pitting different communities against each other.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

You don't need a doctorate in social psychology to know that rage and resentment (and yes, greed too) will sweep through a crowd as fast as fear if the conditions are right. These educated adults surely identified with the mood of the day, instead of demonising them why don't we identify what that feeling is and how it came to be.

way too sensible you are

 

[TruXta]

Yeah just found out it was Eltham and they were EDL. Video of them attacking some black guys on a bus for you to peruse

http://twitpic.com/6421m9

"We've come down to guide them." Sure you have.

 

[Emet]

Going back to historical context again. In the 80s when the Thatcher governments policies started to bite there was an increase in social disorder.

You might care to extend the historical context back a bit. The UK's living standards had been on the slide for a good few years under Labour, and Heath's Tories, before that. The IMF had loaned some billions to keep the show on the road in the mid-1970's. The UK didn't look as if it could make it as an industrial economy, with low-end industry beginning to go east. The trade union reforms could be seen as of little relevance, and mostly for show: the industrial working class was dead; it didn't need a trade union movement.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Hindu Business Line news:

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/economy/article2342347.ece

Armed with swords and hockey sticks, over 700 Sikhs took to the streets last night to protect the Guru Singh Sabha gurdwara in Southall as the police were stretched to maintain law and order on the streets of London.
Local vigilante groups have been formed in various areas in London to protect homes and business establishments that have been vandalised by rioters — mainly of Afro-Caribbean origin — in London over the past four days

This is pitting different communities against each other.

thing is, liocal businessmen, and local communities are feeling threatened by what has happened over the last few days, and the vigilante forming indiviiduals in these local communnity group are going to take advantage of that.
And stuff is going to get really out iof hand if this is allowed to go on.
I really like dthe quote from a cousin of one of the guys run over last might in Birmingham "We don't want anything more to happen – just the culprits brought to justice. We don't want other families to suffer. It's the youth. They have no knowledge, they have no jobs and they are bored." (from the guardian report page here)

 

[Gramsci]

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/

This made me laugh

 

[Glennard]

Got to Manchester today - just walked around the centre - like Cuba or Russia - a police state.

Groups of Police huddling in the rain, on the corner of every otherwise deserted street, waiting for what happened yesterday.

One prestigious store, hit then, had as many as 15 of its own security standing guard outside.

Three young lads, minding their own business, stopped and made to account for their movements.

With brolly and glasses, I looked too old to attract more than suspicious looks.

Makes me think that British policing, current spending cuts not withstanding will come more to resemble these countries or America's zero tolerance to keep the proles in check.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hope these 'educated adults' get the longest prison sentences allowable under the law.

do you think anyone gives a fuck about what you hope?